What will the M4 Do At 1,000 Yards?

A few weeks ago I took a standard Colt A2 rifle with government  20 inch profile barrel with iron sights and  a mix of issue and match ammo out to 1,000 yards to see show what it would do.   This time, I  did the same thing again with a M4. Technically , it s a M4A1 upper made by Colt with the heavier SOCOM profile barrel 14.5 inches long.   Everything about the carbine other then the  semi auto  only FCG is issue.  I used iron sights again in keeping with my theme of  marksmanship skill with a rifle and basic knowledge everyone should have.  I did however, also take a carbine with a Aimpoint T-1 on it for long range use. More on that later.

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Because the weeds and grass has grown so high I was not able to lie prone with the carbine. Add to that I had no real way to mount a sling in the proper position for traditional shooting with a sling though I doubt anyone would care enough to hold it against me.  Since the carbine sight radius is shorter then the rifle and not being able to use a sling to steady the carbine, I used sand bags and shot from the bed and over the roof of my Dad’s truck.  This got me up high enough to see over the grass and better spot my shots while confirming zero and getting ready for my  shots “on the record”.

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On request, I brought with me the 55 grain ball  M193 ammo to test. Facebook readers posted that they wanted to know what it would do being they considered it the most common round in use with the majority of AR15 users.  The ammo used was M193 lake city.  I also brought Lake city M855 62 grain ammo from the same lot as the test done with the 20 inch rifle and of course the MK 262  77 grain OTM ammo I handload to mimic the Black Hills load.

The day was just about perfect. The tempo was just over 80 degree with little humidity. The wind did blow from right to left as it always does on top of the mountain , but was only about 3-5 MPH.  The problem was the clouds.  Few people know that at long range the position of the sun and how much shade is over the target has a huge impact on your zero and POI.  The light on target from clouds and the sun as it moves through the sky is a real PITA.  Not only do the clouds move fast, but while stopping to let the barrel cool or taking a drink will be enough time for the light to change on you after you had just got everything set up.   I had to a hard time getting settles do to rapid cloud movement casting shade on target.

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In the picture above you can see the shadow of passing clouds moving down range.  No, I did not attend the University of South Vietnam School of Warfare, that would be Dad.

I set the steel gong up to conform zero and shot on it to fine tune my zero, then moved onto the paper.  This time I used the cardboard competition targets instead of the black military target.

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I shot the 55 grain M193 first because I know a lot of people wanted to know what it would do.  To give it all the chance I could, I started it off with a cleaner cool barrel and while my eye sight was still fresh and not strained.  I got on the steel after a hit.  I fired 30 rounds at the target and was able to make to hits on paper.

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Both holes where slightly out of round showing the lack of stability due to lack of velocity among other things. They did not keyhole exactly and I was surprised they cut a clean hole. I did not expect to get on target at all with a 14.5 inch carbine barrel. It did take a lot of adjustment on the front sight and rear to get them that far. Its not even practical so I am not going to bother with the fine details on it.   I feel shooting the 55 grain this far really is a waste of time.  I was very lucky to get these two hits on paper and while I would not want hit by the round at that distance, its pointless.  Unlike the M855.

The M855 and its ability surprised me once again.  For a much maligned round, it continues to surprises me.  Despite what it did in the rifle, I did not even guess I would get out of it what I got this time.   After my zeroing procedure on the steel gong, I lined up on the paper and fired off 20 rounds.

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The wind and lack of velocity of a full length rifle carried the shots to the left side of the target.  But man did it group well!!  If I had been able to call the wind better, I think I could have gotten almost 90 percent into the center of the target!  I have said before the M4 is the more accurate of the M16 series and this a good example.  The heavier SOCOM barrel helps as well. I chose it because of the shorter stiffer and heavier barrel. this keep the barrel from shifting POI from heat and helped with vibration. The SOCOM barrel is a choice for a lot of people using suppressors to keep their zero from shifting from having the can on and taking it off.  It benefited me for the same reasons.   The bullets again did not cut a perfect hole, but it was very slight. The  slightly better profile of the bullet helped the SS109 projectile over the older M193.    To say I was shocked to not only have gotten on target at 1,000 yards with the carbine, but to out perform the rifle was surreal.  But, It is important to remember this time I had multiple sandbags and the trigger was a SSA trigger of 3 pounds.  It is not issue like the rifle, but the carbine is such a challenge I wanted to give my self all the help I could to keep from firing 500 rounds and not having anything to show for it.

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As expected the MK 262 was the best performer. Not only did the rounds end up better centered, thanks to my getting a better handle on it and the obvious advantage of the match round , but they hit higher up into the targets “chest.”  At this point the clouds had stopped giving shade/sun shade/sun but the wind had almost died down.  I fired 25 rounds at the target after my zero confirmation on the steel.  As good as it did I can not decided if it really did much better then the M855 as crazy as that seems. but I fired more rounds at the target then I did the M855. They seem more centered, but the conditions became almost perfect and I had taken a long break before shooting. It still turned out great and the holes cut a prefect round circle. The 77 grain sierra bullet was made for this kind of thing so its not a huge surprise. It ability to retain velocity and energy while staving off the wind better showed on paper.  The load I used this time was significantly hotter then last time.  I used  Lake City primed cases with military crimped primers as the brass. I pulled the bullets and tossed it in the garbage with the powder and swapped it for the 77 and a load of Varget. My own version of “mexican match.”  The crimped primer and mil brass gave me a little more wiggle room to really crank it up.  Use caution if you try the same method. The ammo was made for another project I was doing years ago and it was made for longer range shooting but to be safe in a semi auto.  Using fresh commercial brass resulted in popped primers but it was do able in military primed brass and the bullets seated out slightly longer but still deep enough to feed through a USGI Colt 20 round magazine.  That helped the better grouping this time but the quality of the Colt SOCOM barrel is superb.  I have never seen a bad Colt barrel but this one stands head and shoulders above a lot of the others I have used. I would love to know what it would do while free floated.  And of course the SSA trigger was a huge help.

Cardiovascular Structures

 

Lastly I decided to take a 6940 with a T-1 Aimpoint and shoot it with M855. A lot of people are always asking us how far can they shoot with just a red dot.  And of course, a lot of the internet will tell you a M4 or carbine in general is a 50 yard gun, or a 200 meter gun and all the crap we all hear over and over and over.   It’s not.  Of course a lot of  people get too tied up in the idea of fragmentation range and base the guns effectiveness on that.  I often wonder why no one tells them we are not in the military and are therefore not restricted to using ball ammo.

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I shot the T-1 to 800 yards.  I did this at 800 instead of 1,000 for a few different reasons.  The big one is  I have no idea what the holdover would be at that range. I was not going to change the zero on my social gun just to find out.  I am used to working with irons sights and changing them around for long ranges but I am not going to fool around with a red dot at that range.  the idea with the RDS is you use a specific type of zero you feel is most effective then know your hold over and under for the rest.  Shooting the T1 that far is just not practical because I can not see anyone wanting to zero their red dot for 800 or even 700. And no one is likely to use it like a sniper optic, zeroing it in for a long range shot.  This was another demonstration just to show what can be done with tools many say are way more limited then they really are.    After conforming my hold over on a steel gong, I moved over and shot the paper.  Performance was better as expected since this was 800 yards instead of 1K and I was using a 16 inch barrel. This gave a hair more velocity ( and I do mean a hair. In fact I almost didn’t mention it since so many people think it makes that much difference) and the barrel is  free floated. The lower also has a SSA trigger. This was also shot form sand bags in the elevated position.

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Shooting to 500 to 600 yards is not a difficult task wit ha RDS. The magnifier is not a must have to do this either.  You are not sniping, you are just trying to hit a man sized target or close enough to the target to scare it or whatever  you need to do.  That is pretty good for a 1x red dot.  What zero you choose for your red dot makes a huge difference with what you can achieve with it.  Below is a link to Travis Haley who made and  excellent video on the different zeros and their trajectories and ranges.  I highly suggest everyone watch it if you are not familiar with the different zeros. It may make you re think the zero  you have been using for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nzv8unkmJo

Like the article o shooting the standard A2 at 1,000 yards, I hope this will be as informative and help people understand what the basic carbine will do and what a person can achieve when they have a good handle on proper marksmanship fundamentals.  The M4 is not a 50 yard or 200 yard guns as is often said.  the M4 is a very accurate weapon and can be used to good effect even at ranges that truly are beyond the practical range of most of its users. I don’t know if practicing these skills are use full or if practicable for everyone, But I think it is a confidence builder if nothing else. See what your carbine can do, even if you can’t exactly do it, still give people confidence in their weapon.   I can not advise everyone to go  out and practice this stuff because it is infinitely better to use ammo and training time for training set more in reality. But, if you do have the time and ammo and range to give it a try, it will help you refine your pure marksmanship skills and it is a heck of a confidence builder. If you can master longer range shooting, you should feel a lot better about your skill at shorter ranges if you ever need to take a precise shot.

If you decide to try it, don’t get too frustrated if it  takes a while. I had near perfect conditions for this test and trying to repeat some of it the next day for another friend led to me not making  even 5 percent of the hits I made the day before.  Though  you can not be lucky unless you do everything right, luck does help and conditions need to be just right if you really want to see the kind of performance seen above.  Years of shooting long range and great gear sometimes  can not make up for nature and your own body if it all does not come together to cooperate.

29 thoughts on “What will the M4 Do At 1,000 Yards?”

  1. Thanks for working so hard to bring this writeup to us. I have been waiting with great anticipation ever since you announced you’d be trying for 1K with an M4 type rifle. Very good information and a great testament to what can be done with affordable, and less specialized, equipment in the hands of a versatile marksman.

    Now I need to start hunting for some M855. Very impressive.

    1. no. hunting with M855 is the worst Idea anyone has ever had. and it is very illegal to use ball ammo for hunting in addition. stick to a hollow point of the solid copper hollow point barness bulletd

      1. I said I need to start hunting FOR some m855, not hunting with it. I am talking about for shooting, not for hunting.

        1. probably almost every one of them, including my state, Ky that has some of the most relaxed gun laws in America, even less restrictions then TX. what la la land do you live in that allows using ball on big game

          further more, why would you use the worst performing ammo to try to take down game

      2. Texas allows ball ammo – just no fully automatic firearms and no incendiary rounds. I use ball ammo with a suppressor to eradicate hogs and coyotes.

  2. Excelent write up. This reinforces my descision to go with the carbine instead of the rifle for my first build.

    In this article you say you have always felt the carbine is the more accurate of thee M16 lineup. Can you go into some detail about that. I ask because my yonungest daughter, 7, is really into the longer range shooting right now. 250 yard steel with 10/22 using an ACOG knockoff. I had cosidered building her a rifle lenght AR in a year or two, but if the carbie is truly that much better then I would like to know about it. When I say carbine, I mean comercial carbine with a true 16″ barrel and mid length gas system. I live in california and shit just sucks here. I don’t want to deal with the legal bullshit. Thanks for taking the time and for your insight.

    1. Mike, The carbine is mechanically more accurate. but that does not make it easier to use. Sight radius is shorter, making it harder to work with with iron sights, the barrel being shorter, does offer less velocity. Accuracy has nothing to do with velocity when it comes to mechanical accuracy, but the wind does effect s slower bullet more. You would be better off buying her a rifle.
      Im not sure what you mean by a “true” 16 inch barrel or why you imply a commercial barrel is better. when it is not necessarily. A Colt milspec cut rifles barrel is usually more accurate then most people using it. also the trendy hammer forged barrels are not nor ever will be as accurate as a quality cut rifled barre. None of looserounds ever recommends a mid length gas system. Colt tried it in the 70s and discarded it for a reason. it has perceived advantages only. The Colt carbine and rifle gas system have been around for over 50 years of combat. the middy has not. Stick to something combat proven , is out philosophy . 250 is by no means long range. but if that is about the range you will be using it. a carbine or rifle will work about as well if set up with optics. the more details about why the carbine is more accurate needs a more detailed answer then what I have room for here or time to write about. so I may address it later

      1. My “comercial” referance is in regards to the comercial market producing 16″ barrles to mitigate the fedearl restrictions on barrle length. The the M4 carin is made with a 14.5 inch barrel and unless you have a flassh hider permanently fixed to the barrle that will take it bats 1inches then you are in the SBR category. Hense the 16 inch barrel. Bur a 16 inch barrel with acarbine gas sustem givew you 1.5 inches more dwell time and causes the bolt to open while still under a lot of pressure. That was why I made that referance.

        I a till intruged. What is it abot the carbine that is mire “mechanicaly accurate” than any other barrel length. I undestand velocity gain by barrel legth and balistic co efficiecy. All otehr things taken awway, what makes a carbine barrle more mechanicaly accurate. I am a balckhawk mechanic, navy trained. So technical sstuff peaks my interest.

        I have been leaning toward a 20 inch build for her but I like the carbine so much more. In theend I think I will let her make up her own mind. I will be building a carbine first and I think I can find someone with a 20″ rifel for her to try out.

        Tanks for your time and expertice.

        1. Mike, any barrel sold on the commercial market is a commercial barrel whether it is a 10 inch a 14.5 , 16 20 or 100 inches. NFA or not. Barrels made to duplicate Milspec in being made are called such for ease of communication. And I am fully aware how the gas system on a carbine works. But I do appreciate your condescending reply.
          the carbine barrel is more accurate for a variety of reasons ( if it is a quality barrel to begin with) it is shorter and stiffer, it is less effected by vibrations and heat. How a barrel behaves as a bullet travels down it has as much to do with its accuracy as how it is made. A shorter barrel that is stiffer is more stable then a longer barrel that acts like whip when fired and stress more from a string of shots from heat. None of these facts are a secret or known only to a few people. If you want more about barrel harmonics , heat and nodes. Read M.L McPherson book. or Dr. Mann’s The Bullet in Flight. Or Warren Page’s The Accurate Rifle.

  3. I am sorry you feel I was condescnding towards you and I assure you that you are mistaken about that. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and experience. I am actualy here to learn at this moment in time and you have some specific insight in the precise scope I am looking into.

    I was only clarifying what i saw as a misunderstanding about a detail being comunicated between us. this sort of misudestanding is very common in writen communications so I am not suprised we are missunderstanding each other and you feel slighted. I am sorry about that for sure.

    I was just clarifying that the mid length gas system was made to move the gas port forward 1.5 inches to rectify a problem created when the commercial market invented the 6 inch barrel to satisfy the deamnd in the civilain market for carbine length ARs without dealing with BATF for the tax stamp.

    So, my remark about “true” 16 inches was exactly about that. People generaly regard a carbine as having a 16″ barrle but the M4 has the 14.5 inch barrlel that many ople try to duplicate to follow as close as possible to the M4 when buildong a carbiine. And they permanentlly attach the longer flash hider to get the the 16 iches and avoid all the SBR hassle. That to me is a 14.5 inch barrel and the 16″ + flash hider is a true 16 inches. That is all I meant by that.

    And again. I am sorry if i cam acros as condescending to your. I would not intentionaly do that to you. Your kknowlege and skill earn you a lot of respect in my eyes. Kudoes for puting lead on target at a thousand yards with a carbine. That is quit an achievemet.

    1. Nothing wrog with a 16″ carbine. Actually Colt Canada has been making them for a while. The C8’s are all 16″ Carbines.

      The SAS also use the L119A1 which is also a 16″ Carbine.

      I have seen multiple Colts go 15,000+ rounds with no parts breaking with a 16″ barrel as well.

  4. I sometimes hunt with an H&R Handi Rifle, shooting 60 grain V-Max rounds in .223 Remington. Devastating round on feral hogs and yotes. Mostly 100 to 150 yard shots. Just wondering what the energy that round the author was shooting would have at 1000 yards? And, no, I would not want him to shoot me at that range to find out!

  5. Great shooting, but I don’t know why people insist on using a vehicle as a rest. The thing has 4 shock absorbers and pneumatic tires. Why would you start with just about the most unstable platform too shoot from in the field?

  6. the Coriolus effect has more impact on the flight of that round at that distance than shooting it off a truck ever would.

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