AR15 At 1,000 Yards (Can a rack grade AR15 and M855 make 1,000 yard hits?)

For a while now there has been a lot of talk about how ineffective the 5.56 service round is. It’s all over the internet gun boards and the popular slick newsstand gun magazines.  Time and time again we are all told how the 5.56 is a 200-yard gun, or if you’re using a carbine, you’re stuck with a 50-yard gun.  Everyone knows this, it’s just plain common sense!   The problem is, it’s not really true.  A whole lot of people sound off about something they really don’t know much about and have zero experience with.    This amused me for a few years, then as more and more time passed it really started to bug me to the point of aggravation.  A certain type will always repeat the same inaccurate info and we all know that. The problem is that it causes those in military service to lose confidence in their service weapon and what it can do. Confidence in your tools is an important thing, if you believe in and know for a fact what your rifle can do, you shoot it better.

Most serious followers of the AR15 platform know about the MK12 rifles and have read stories about 500 to 800-yard kills and how effective it has been in the GWOT.  A few are at least vaguely familiar with High Power service rifle matches.  But they assume any AR15 type rifle that can be used for these ranges is by necessity some super customized and specialized weapon.  Obviously there is truth in that. To shoot a winning score at Camp Perry you have to have some specialized rifle work done and use special ammo.    When these accomplishments are brought up in discussion, they are shot down by the people who “know better” because they are not the same guns issued out to troops or normal civilian users for self protection.  And so it goes on and on, that the AR15 is a 200-yard gun.

It is not.   It will do more than most believe, and it will do it with military-issue ammo.

Back in 2006 I started a personal goal of making a 1,000 yard shot on a man-sized target with a Colt A2 with HBAR using only a 1906 leather sling and iron sights in the prone position.  I did make my goal laying prone and setting with the help of 80 grain Sierra matchkings. It took a lot of practice and dry firing leading up to it and it is one of my proudest moments.  I have continued this type of thing ever since and have come to be fully familiar with what an A2 rifle will do.

After years of the 200-yard gun claims, I decided to do this again, but this time I would use a M16A2 upper.  There is a big difference between a Match Target Colt HBAR  with competition sling and FF tubes and match triggers and a  Colt M16A2  with government profile barrel and milspec trigger.

My goal was to repeat my 1,000 yard hits with as close to a rack grade standard issue rifle as I could.   The rifle is a Colt M16A2 upper that was a contract over-run,  It has the 1/7 twist chrome lined barrel in a government profile.  The lower is a Colt lower from another rifle, using the standard milspec trigger.  It doesn’t have 3-round burst or any of the associated parts, but it’s essentially the same as a M16A2.

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The M16A2 upper/Match Target lower on left with Colt Cammando on the right.

Instead of the 1906 leather sling, I  used the boring old cotton/nylon parade sling with metal hooks and slider as my only support. I used no rest or bipods and I did not use a 30 round mag as a monopod for support.   The iron sights are A2 standard sights.  Of course. the A2 sights top out at 800 meters when zeroed in the standard methods, but I knew from my last time doing this that careful adjustment of the front sight post will allow you to gain more elevation from the front/rear sight combo to make hits on target at 1,000 yards. My  only other help was a cotton shooting jacket to help me squeeze into the tight uncomfortable shooting positions needed to be able to hit at real distance using iron sights.

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I decided to use two different types of ammo since I wanted to reflect the more popular 5.56 loads.  I used black hills MK 262 for my first 10 rounds and M855 for another 10 rounds .  I didn’t expect much from the M855 since it is not MK 262 but I thought I would get close.   The MK 262 is the most common long range load, and for terminal performance it is best to use it anyway.  It is an issue round as well, so I felt it gave no real advantage that handloads would being a normal soldier/Marine could theoretically be able to use it.  Of course civilians can use MK 262 or TAP or the copies of the popular loading.

Getting on paper at that distance is tough and of course I had one of my best friends to spot for me. He is an experienced spotter and long range shooter with iron sights as well and we work together great when trying these projects.  To help me establish zero before making my record shots, I set a steel gong about half the size of the man sized target beside the  paper target I would be using for record group.

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The steel gong can be seen on the left in the picture and is painted neon  red/orange. the record paper target is to the right of the steel gong and is a man sized ( belt to head) black target with bullseye in the center mass.

I fired 10 rounds of the MK262 first at the steel gong to make sure I was on,then refined my hold.  After making hits I moved to the record paper target and fired.  I fired 10 rounds and got 6 rounds in the target.   All six rounds would be fatal. One was in the center circle “bullseye” and some in the lower groin.  The rest of the rounds did not go in the black, but were so close they almost cut the outline of the target.

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Clicking the image will enlarge it and allow better inspection of the hits. They are hard to see since it is black but I tried to mark them with a red sharpie.

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The close picture above shows the shot in the center bull , the hole is cutting a white line. Some of the upper body shots can be seen in the upper right ( viewers right) of the target/picture.  Lower hits can not be seen.

If this does not seem special to you, remember, this is with a rack grade rifle, using rack grade sights using only a sling.  A fast look up of the size of the regulation NRA  1,000 yard national match targets used at camp perry for a comparison will give some perspective.  Just find the measurements on the NRA  bull only and the 10 ring.  And compare to how small this target is.

Next up I started what I thought would be a lesson in frustration and I shot all around the targets like mortar rounds using M855.  I knew I could get very close and was fairly confident I would get on target in the black.  I expected a elbow or ear lobe type of hit but nothing special.  I started out with my earlier 10 rounds on steel and then 10 on the record target.  I fully expected to shoot them, then go check out the target to see if I was close.  I planned on shooting at least 50 rounds before I got a decent hit with the m855.    Even at that rate, it would still be nothing to snub at.  M855 is not match ammo. But I knew it would get close. Machine guns are expected to make some hits that far and that was the original goal of the SS109/M855 anyway.  Keep that in mind when people say the M855 or 5.56 is a 200-yard cartridge.

I went through the process again. I fired 10 rounds at the steel. My spotter told me I was making hits, and I even heard one ring the plate loudly. I knew then I was as close as I probably was going to get as far as my zero and hold would be after some adjusting of the rear sight to make up for the M855 trajectory being different than the MK 262 round.

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By this point it was about 92 degrees and sweat was pouring in my eyes and glasses.  I decided to fire the 10 rounds on record then go look at the target to take a break. The barrel was very hot at this point from heat of firing and the sun. I even had stripped off the shooting jacket because of the heat.  My intention was to see if I was even close to the black before I shot up all my M855  using the same sight correction that may have been off.

I had swapped to the IDPA target to have a fresh target and because of the position of the sun.  The light brown color of the target was easier on the eyes then black and did not cause as much trouble with the front sight as the black target would have by this time of day.

You can imagine our surprise when I walked down to the  IDPA target I had shot at.   One of the 10 rounds fired had hit the “A” of the A zone of the target, one was a head shot, and a third was a center hit in the lower gut.

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That is three rounds out of 10.  Ten rounds of military grade, Lake City green tip M855. Fired from a contract over run Colt M16A2 upper with  milspec trigger.  Using a parade sling made from cotton.  Three rounds of what is the least thought of US issue military ammo made using nothing more than a sling for support while laying prone and using iron sights.   I was very pleased.  And I do not feel that three rounds out of 10 on this size target with this rifle is a paltry accomplishment.  I have made better shots with much higher quality match guns, I have made a 1 mile shot, but this is as pleasing to me as any of those other shots.

Everyone there promptly said, “no one will believe it” so I had them witness and sign the target.

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This is not some special gimmick.  The AR15 is fully capable of this kind of shooting.  If you shoot and are familiar with your weapon as much as you should be, you too can do this.  If you can do this at 1,000, think of what you can really do at say only 500 or 600.  A trained rifleman should be able to destroy a squad in the open at 700 or under with nothing more than an A2/A4 using issue ammo.  It does not take the over-hyped relic M14 to do it either.   The M4 will come very close to this performance as well.  Those who say the M4 is almost useless for anything past 50 yards need to wake up.   Using the M262 ammo and iron sights, we have made multiple hits on the same type of targets at 800 yards.  The lack of a plain M4 with iron sights currently is the only reason why you are not looking at the pictures of 800 yard results with an M4.  It will do it.  In fact, the M4 is more accurate then the 20 inch rack grade service rifles.  That will be a project for next month.

The guns like the SPR MK12 have given the impression to a lot of people that only those types of AR15 pattern weapons can hit as far.   It is a question of accuracy and how much you need.   If you need to make head shots at 600 yards, sure, I would pick the MK12.  But if all you need or all your skill allows is center mass hits, then the service carbine/rifle is perfectly capable of these at long ranges.

It is a training issue.  Its a marksmanship issue.   Spend less time trying to put 15 rounds in a man sized target at 15 yards in 1/2 second and spend a little more time practicing the basics and really learning what you and the gun can do.   The fast DA hyper-violent shooting has its place to be sure, and do not neglect it.  But don’t let it take over your mind.  Being able to knock down the bad guy before he gets within the range of double taps is also important.   Would you rather trade shots at 25 yards or  pepper the bad guy at 700 before he can shoot you?   That won’t always be the case of course, but it is a skill you should have if you want to call yourself a rifleman with well rounded skills.

The terminal effects of the round at these ranges is another matter and gives people an excuse to not practice. The thing is, a hit is a hit. Kills at 800 yards have been made with the MK12, so that should tell you something.  Even if it takes 3 hits to put some one down at 900 yards with your 5.56 carbine, they are still down at 900 yards.  I would gladly use up three rounds than have to deal with a bad guy at 50 yards.  Ten rounds needed to stopping a target 900 yards away is worth more then 100 rounds when the bad guy is with 50 as far as I am concerned.  Work with your weapon, learn it and don’t let the gun rag writers and forum experts make you lose confidence in your tool.  The AR15 and the 5.56 work.  Don’t listen to the fluff used to sell new platforms/calibers.

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Link to Q&A about the article.

http://looserounds.com/2013/06/26/qa-on-the-ar15m855-at-1000-yard-post/

A lot of people who emailed me, or commented on the subject wanting to know how it was done and my procedures etc.  After talking to a friend about it, I re read the article and realized that I should have been more clear in some parts. While the majority of people know what the point I was trying to make, some others seem to think I was trying to say something between the lines. So I am going to answer the question that have popped up from a few people since the article.

First is the assumption that I was making any claims about the terminal performance of the 5.56/M855 round or even the MK 262 at this distance.  I was not.   I simply shot  the drill as a way to demonstrate that the AR15 is capable of  accuracy and accomplishments a lot of people do not bother to imagine or try out.    I never said the 556 would knock a man down at 1K or penetrate X amount of inches.   But, a hit is a hit.   I doubt few would volunteer to be shot at 1K with a 556 to prove how wrong I am.   In the 6os a man was knocked off a bicycle from a stray 22LR shot that escaped over a range berm in Ohio.  It was over a mile from where the shooter was setting.   That does not prove a thing.  But a hit is still indeed a hit.  Even if it feels like a hornet sting, if some one is nailing you at 1,000 yards, that would demoralize me and seriously make me rethink wanting to get closer.  The SS109 was meant to fired at longer ranges in LMG use. So to claim it would not put some kind of hurt on a person is absurd.  How effective that hurt is, is another matter and not the convern of the article.

How did I see the target and what aiming point did I use to be able to hit such a target ?  That is the next common question.   It is simple.  I adjusted the front sight to account for more  elevation. I did not go out with a military 25Meter zero.   Elevation was adjusted using the front sight for the most part and I refined it with the rear since I had plenty left over to play with.   I zeroed the sights at 1,000 yard to the point I used a so called “6 oclock hold”  But actually I adjusted the sight to the point where I held the front site about 5 foot below the target.  That is why I had the steel gong painted neon orange.  I got on the steel. then moved to the paper.   It was not some impossible thing to do or a miracle.  Nor was it “flinging lead down range” ’till I got lucky

You can not get lucky if you don’t do everything right before hand.

Having the hold so far below the point of impact gave me plenty of room to see the target and light. I also could see any impacts into the dust to make windage changes or any other change I needed.  Also a spotter with a 60x spotting scope to help.

How did you do it without 80 grain  bullets with a OAL that required you to single feed?   That was where the gross amount of sight manipulation comes into play and a shooting lane between two hills blocking all but a head wind.   The 80s are great, and if you are trying to hit a X ring at perry, you will need them or the 77 grain HPBT. But with enough adjustment in your sights, you can get just about anything on target. If it is a decent weight.  Careful reading will show I shot the heavier match 77 grain load to get on target initially and had  doubts about the M855. I never said that the M855 was a wonder bullet.

What enemy did you expect to prove the M855 would kill at 1,000 yards?   A cardboard target is all I set out to prove the round would hit. Though few would really let some one shoot them at 1K with the 556 no matter how much the claim other wise.  Also when I said “lethal” hits,  I wrongly assumed people knew that most hits in the “black” of the target are considered solid hits, not anatomically correct. So yeah, my use of lethal was a slang term used in the context of the too large scoring area of military targets. And people have bled to death from groin and lung hits.  So I guess I would consider them lethal depending on the abilities and medical expertise of the enemies you are engaging.  But draw your own conclusions.  My point was to show that the AR15 in stock form will hit at 1,000 yards with good and issue ammo if you know what you are doing. Nothing more.  Furthermore, it was not just luck getting the M855 on target. It is certainly not match accurate ammo. But it is within reason to expect a decent lot of M855 to be able to hit a man.

If the article gave you more confidence in your weapon that was my goal. It does not matter if the average Marine or soldier can or can not do it. It matters what you can do with it when it is in your hands.   It does not matter if you can not imagine needing to take a shot like that. Having the skill builds your confidence and it is there on the off chance you ever need it.  Why does anyone even bother shooting at anything?

According to The Complete Book of US Sniping by Peter Senich,  confirmed kills were made in Vietnam with the M16A1 and 55 grain M193 at 800 meters.  That does not make the combo a sniper rifle or the last word on the subject, but it does show what the right combination of marksman, weapon and skill, can achieve.  Crazy long shots have been made with weapons people never dreamed  of since before  Billy Dixon  knocked and Indian Chief off his horse at the battle of Adobe Walls.   The test was done to show that no matter what you are using, you should always be confident in your skill being able to make hits that are beyond what so called experts say. And, to the limit of what the system is capable of and beyond if possible.Improved marksmanship is something to always strive for, no matter what the weapon and ammo is.  It hurts nothing to have the ability to shoot this far. Oddly enough some people are just out right offended that I did this.  As if hitting your target at such a long range is offensive to them.  It is never a waste of time to be able to hit as far as you can on a realistic sized target.

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45 thoughts on “AR15 At 1,000 Yards (Can a rack grade AR15 and M855 make 1,000 yard hits?)”

  1. Shawn, what a refreshing article! All my time spent shooting long range, including with an AR15 platform, has been with equipment on the expensive side, and custom loads for every rifle with the occasional day of match grade ammo off the shelf. Yes, they are precise, but I always wonder how our grandfathers and those before them hit at extreme distances. Your article just reminded me, that a true marksman – someone who really knows their craft will be able to make a normal rifle seem like a treasure.

    1. Lil, I spent many years in the world of pure precision with a Bench rest shooter as my mentor. Hours of perfecting perfect handloads and custom built rifles are not something I feel was wasted because it made me more well rounded. But now, it does not fall into my personal philosophy of what I call “field accuracy” or “combat accuracy” a rifleman needs to be accurate. but it is more important to get combat effective hits with what you have to work with, than accuracy that will win a 1000 yard IBS or F-class match. Accuracy is important but reality, field conditions etc will often not allow you to take advantage of pure technical accuracy. Effective field accuracy is what I strive for now and what I feel benefits the widest range of shooters when it comes to the martial art of shooting

    1. there was almost no wind. maybe 3 mph in short breezes that lasted about 30 seconds every 20 minutes. I corrected by holding off slightly to the right after adding about 3 minutes of right windage. it was insignificant

  2. I did not say the M4 was accurate to 1000 the same as a A2, I said it was capable to 750 to 800
    I base my statements on reality and experience from doing it. The M4 is mechanically more accurate then the A4 and A2. the barrel is shorter and stiffer. among other things. Dont confuse reduced velocity for reduced accuracy like so many of the ignorant do. Velocity as no effect on accuracy. If that is not good enough for you, you can post on the looserounds facebook page and have my statements verified by several witnesses to hitting at 800 yards with the M4 carbine

    1. the question was sincere and i’m not confusing velocity with accuracy. what i am doing however is noting that the 5.56 is a flat shooting projectile and higher velocity DOES aid in accuracy. additionally the the longer barrel does help and direct impingement in the A4 makes for a smoother shooting weapon with less felt impulse.

      last but not least i applaud your test, your marksmanship and the way that you did it old skool to greater effect than many can with optics.

      it was an honest question and i don’t feel a need to have your statement verified. i just wanted to know how you arrived at it.

      1. we are talking two different things. You are talking external effects on the shooter or the bullet after it leaves the gun or from technique. Shorter barrels and less velocity does not effect mechanical accuracy. only range. This has been proven for years at Anniston and was well documented by Iron Brigade Armory when develping the XM3 sniper rifle under a DARPA project to field smaller, lighter sniper rifles for personnel in the GWOT. Bill Caffee the noted rimfire gun smith and author of many books and writer for precision shootng magazine did a serious of test for years cutting barrels down to be even with the front of the action and no loss of accuracy resulted. NBRSA shooter and IBS shooters got to shorter and heavier barrels to have a shorter stiffer barrel that is less effeted by heat, and vibration while being more stable. A shorter barrel will be stiffer and less effected by tension, stress heat and vibration by a longer barrel. simple as that. If both barrels are of quality, the shorter will be more stiff
        Recoil impulse has nothing to do with mechanical accuracy, only shooter comfort and confidence, if recoil reflected accuracy, round like the 338 or 50 BMG would not be used. Velocity does keep round super sonic longer or deflect wind, but neither of those have any bearing on group size within the weapons range. You are talking about something different then I am. You are talking about shootability or something subjective to the user . I Know what you are talking about and I agree with you at that point. But the M4 is the more accurate mechanically then the 20 inch version, unless we are comparing to the national match or MK 12 etc. But that is not comparing service rifle to service rifle.’
        I do appreciate the compliments. Most people feel no need to be a well rounded rifleman these days, the magpul DVDS and such has made it not as sexy as busting mag dumps at 20 yards. My goal was to bring back the confidence in the service weapon and the respect it deserves, It is a training issue, not a problem with the weapon when it comes to longer range hits with the M16/M4

    2. I remember a class comprised of police where several asked for the maximum effective range of the carbine and the instructor said that we will be shooting 600, and the majority were skeptical or in total disbelief. Until we started to ring steel. It’s a common misconception. The longest range I’ve shot steel with a 5.56 16″ was 600 meters.

  3. The 20 inch rifle has been my new best friend for a couple of years now. A well rounded rifleman should be capable with any sighting system… as the primary capability of a rifleman is an understanding of his capabilities (or limitations), the rifle’s performance, and how to best utilize his skill and knowledge of the platform to score a hit at X Y or Z range. Upgrades should come intelligently as he or she learns the inns and outs of the weapon and learns his or her capabilities.

    Get to a point where you can hit a target reliably at 600-700-800 yards with irons and imagine what you could do with a variable optics or an ACOG.

  4. That is truly impressive! I am very interested in the comment regarding the M4 being more accurate than the A2. I have had my own theories on this but can you elaborate?

  5. When I was in the Army, I shot in a Marine shoot with events including open site M-16. In the finals, we shot 600, 800, and 1000 meter targets (slightly more than yards) with our battle weapons. We had shooters from every branch at the tournament (including Coast Guard and local police). Really makes you wonder about the “experts” as this couldn’t have been the only shoot with such an event, and I had practiced shooting the distance numerous times before and after on active duty.

  6. This is the article I have been wanting to see for a long time. At the risk of sounding weird I feel validated now. As a retired marine I am no stranger to what disciplined, well practiced marksmen can do with a rifle. I have even hunted medium sized game (read deer and pigs) with my civi AR15. If I ever find myself with a problem whoes correct sollotion is the controlled application of violence, I will not feel under gunned with an AR15.

  7. I was in Iraq in 2003 when one of our guys used his M4 with iron sights using M855 to hit an insurgent on the run at 400 meters, one shot one kill. He fell when he was shot and by the time we got to him he was dead, hit in the lower back. I have always thought the idea of the 5.56 to be a 200 meter or less round absurd. In fact, I often ask the same question you do: “let me put a 5.56mm hole in you at 400 yards, then walk back and tell me how you feel”. I don’t think I’ll get any takers though. Is the 5.56 the ultimate round, no. Is it accurate and lethal beyond 500 meters in the hands of a competent rifleman, yes.

    1. Impressive work with an M4 with iron sights to hit an insurgent on the run. What unit were you in?

  8. Never shot the A2 beyond 600, but out of the arms room at 600 yards, 20 out of 20 on a E target is expected from a knowledgable shooter.

  9. Good on you Shawn. I’ve coached the last three consecutive All Army Small Arms champions. Before that I taught SDM for s number of years, still conduct the occasional course.

    I’m not a distinguished rifleman (yet) but I’ve produced a number of them.

    The M16A4 and M4 are woefully misunderstood by nearly all Soldiers. There are less than 200 Soldiers in the Army that I would consider “Riflemen” even the “multiple tours, combat arms NCO” is not a guarantee of any real skill at arms AT ALL. Soldiers are universally poorly skilled with their rifles. It’s appalling. But for such Soldiers, first you’d have to admit you have a problem. If they “qualify expert” they believe *that* somehow equals skill. I’d call that “familiarity.” 40/40 is easy, nothing to brag about, and is a ridiculously low standard. Most Soldiers never achieve even that embarrassingly low standard. If an NCO can’t get all of his squad to shoot “expert” he’s untrained.

    My point is that most (but I’d wager closer to all) the criticism you may have received from Soldiers ought to be dismissed out of hand. They really are overconfident amateurs. Even in “Special Forces” units, that’s no guarantee of skill at arms.

    That about sums it up. If I offended someone, good. Outshoot me.

    The thing is that the M16/M4 is an EXCELLENT weapon and there are excellent 5.56mm cartridges. A Soldier doesn’t have to be a superhero to shoot really well with it either. We trained many female Soldiers that had no problem striking a steel silhouette target, 14″ wide and 40″ tall, at 760 meters, with iron sights on her M16A2. I can drop names, ranks, class dates. With the M4 and ACOG, SDM Students routinely hit the same target at 800 to 830 meters – 1st round hits.

    In our SDM classes, we spent so much time at 500 and 600 on the KD range, that 300 was a welcomed and easy target engagement for them. Yet in units many Soldiers will not engage the 3 exposures of the 300 meter target, preferring to save those three rounds for the closer targets when they miss the first shot, so they can re-engage the ‘easy’ targets. They’re all easy!

    I want to share a couple of things, there’s somebody out there reading this that will heed this advice, I promise it can make you a dramatically better shooter.

    When shooting for precision with rack grade Army M16’s or M4’s there is one method that works. DO NOT EVER USE A SLING OF ANY KIND TO “LOCK IN” “SNAP IN” OR OTHERWISE PULL ON THE SLING SWIVEL. The AR in a rack grade condition does not have a free floating barrel. The upper receiver is made of a zinc and aluminium alloy, the barrel is hard steel. Pulling on the sling is like making a giant torque wrench, moving the strike if the round several inches just at 100 yards! Any weight or pressure on the handguards moves the barrel.

    Don’t touch the handguards or use a sling if you want the most out of a rack grade rifle.

    Use the magazine, preferably a 30 rounder, as a monpod. Place the palm of your non firing hand (not your fingers) on the flat front face of the magwell. Spread your elbows and get nice and low and stable. The non firing palm exerts firm rearward pressure on the rifle.

    There’s more to it, but that’s the biggest challenge you’re having now. Great job on the test

    Enjoy.

    1. Jose. I would dearly, dearly love to talk to you about this further via email and would even more like for you to type this up for me to publish as a guest post, you can add to it or polish it however you would like. please email me at shawn@looserounds.com. I may make this comment into a article post as is and if you want to elaborate or write more I will edit or replace it. I would also like to invite you to make regular guest posts if you are interested in it. what you are saying is a point I have been driving and trying to get across for years. hope to hear from you soon

    2. If you have a manual on this of any kind I would love to have a copy, I changed my grip and went from 5 inches to 2 inches and that was info I definitely didnt get in the army late 90s. My email is dukeemurphy@yahoo.com if you have the time thanks.

  10. 200 yard gun? WTF?

    With a beat up M16A4, an ACOG, and standard issue M855 while shooting supported by nothing but my elbows and a sling I can regularly go 10 for 10 in the black at 500. What internet commandos came up with “200 yard gun”?

    And as far as lethality…that’s the beauty of long range. If I smoke someone at 800 yards with a 5.56 I don’t care if it takes them 30 minutes to bleed out. They’re wounded and 800 yards away from me, they can take as long as they want, they’re no threat to me now. And if by some superhuman feat of will they are…I’ve at very least bought myself enough time to put the second round on target.

    1. That was a navy seal that wrote that article about the 200yd 556 round, God help are elite, our incompetent shots! Contending modern war is not about rifles but larger weapons and support, I think there’s less of a need for accuaracy for standard troops, but why have incompetence, when you can be skilled. I think you have to pick to be one or the other. Moreover, wars are won by the industrial machine and capital than anything else, who can produce more… I wonder…How hard can it be to putt the damn gun firmly in your shoulder.. That’s hardest part, after that what the heck!

  11. We were getting 1000yd kills in Afghanistan with an M4 and a $39 Kmart 3 X 9 scope. Dead is Dead ! Fancy Pants or not!! Our targets shot back!!

  12. It’s difficult to find knowledgeable people in this particular
    subject, however, you sound like you know what you’re talking about!
    Thanks

    1. its about the only subject I know anything about. I have been doing it all my life likely longer than some of the big name trainers out there right now. not to say they are not experts. but just pure time doing it.

  13. In the effort to halt the spread of disinformation, you had me at the beginning until you used the term GWOT. Come on now. Let’s not lend credence to the phony and contrived war on terror. Let’s stick to marksmanship fundamentals.

    Back to the article. In my day at the range and when being tested, I was hitting man-sized “B” targets, with iron sights, in the black. The only requirement being good eyesight and the application of marksmanship fundamentals. It’s strikes me as odd novices (and now the military) scrambling to equipment themselves with scopes designed for 1,000+ yard shooting but at targets 200 yards away. Whatever happened to using the natural methods?

    Listen up, people. Learn to use the iron sights. You’ll be surprised at what you can do with them. Scopes are for the weak and blind.

    1. i call it the gwot cause that’s what it was called for years and still used. And I use it because I can never remember how to spell the name of shithole countries . if that “loses you, then I submit to you that this website is not right for you in the first place

  14. I always crack up when people tell me you can’t make 600 meter hits, when you can ring steel at 600 meters with an M4. I certainly wouldn’t want to be the guy getting tagged at 600 meters by the 5.56. The 5.56 is probably one of the most misunderstood cartridges, due to the fact that it has a lower pressure loading sister cartridge, and an infinite number of platforms with a massive degree of variables in quality and application. This reminds me of when the band wagon jumped on the 40 and said the 9mm and 45 Auto was obsolete. Now you got a bunch of range rangers saying the 5.56 is trash and hyping cartridges like the SPC despite the many obvious shortcomings. I believe a better cartridge is out there it just hasn’t been implemented yet. Ironically it’s right under our nose, but it will take the collective a while to see it..

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