Apparently the CEO of X-Products, manufacturer of various drum magazines, feels that gun ownership is a privilege not a right. He suggests some sort of inane licensing system banning the majority of firearms from the majority of people. Read the whole story over at Soldier Systems.
I don’t think I have to say anything about the now standard mouth foaming idiocy that comes from these tragedies. But I saw this and thought it too good not to share.
“An AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle. It shoots 13.4 bullets per second, 800 rounds per minute. It was created for the purpose of hitting multiple targets in a short amount of time, making it ideal for mass murder. It’s been used in the military to clear out areas in the Middle East for the reason above. Compare it to, say, a Glock 19 (a popular handgun, since you’re confused about it). This gun is small and holds a chamber big enough for 10 rounds of ammo. It is not an automatic or semi-automatic weapon, meaning it takes more time in between shots to be able to shoot again. The Glock 19 shoots less than a single bullet per second. It is used in homicides and burglaries, crimes with singular victims. it is not ideal for mass murder because of its inability to target multiple people at once. But you know what can? A fucking semi-automatic weapon”
This video shows off the AK-15. The same rifle as the AK-12, but in 7.62×39. One notable change in the AK-12 and AK-15 over the venerable AK-47/AKM/AK74 is a free floating barrel with the gas tube fixed to the receiver. It also has a side folding collapsing butt stock.
But the most interesting thing about this video is over at 27 seconds the target they show appears to show key-holing. This is where the bullet impacts the target sideways. Not very impressive from any rifle.
I was asked by someone on AR15.com to find some information about the M203. I am posting it here so it will be available for everyone.
I weight a 9 inch and 12 inch barrel on a precision scale. Both barrels had grease on them which I did not clean off. I can’t tell you how much the grease threw off the measurements, but this should still give you a fair comparison on weights.
The 9 inch barrel is 14.7 oz, or 416.6g.
The 12 inch barrel is 17.54 oz or 497.5g.
It makes me think that since the 12 inch barrel is so close to 500 grams that may have been a target weight for the barrel. When I first put the 12 inch barrel on the scale it said 500 flat, but when I moved it and wiggled the barrel it ended up settling down to 497.5g. So in the end, the 9 inch barrel is about .18 pounds lighter than the 12 inch barrel.
LMT M203 with unknown brand 9in 40mm barrel. LMT Stand Alone Stock, Daniel Defense Front Sight, and unknown rail mount leaf sight.
Also, the Army says that the muzzle velocity of the M320 is 236.22 fps, and the M203 is 250 fps. But I don’t know what barrel length they are referring to in that.
This has been around the web for a while and I have no idea where it originally came from. I ran across it again by chance and though it was worth reposting. I doubt anyone who takes their personal safety serious doesn’t already know this kind of stuff.
For this post we have a very special guest. Below is an interview with Lynne Black Jr. I asked Mr. Black if he would be so kind to submit to the torture of me asking him a lot of annoying questions he has been asked a million times before and he very graciously accepted. Some of our readers who have come over to us after the too soon passing of our friend Kevin, who, like Mr. Black , was/is also a Special Forces soldier and owner of weaponsman will hopefully especially enjoy the conversation with Mr. Black.
He is a vet of the US Army Special Forces, The 173 Airborne Brigade and the legendary Studies and Observations Group (SOG) as a “One-Zero” team leader. MACVSOG was the top secret, super clandestine multi-service special operation forces unit from the war that had it’s hand in most of the war’s most notable events. SOG’s strategic reconnaissance teams and Hatchet force companies conducted a variety of missions, raids and rescues in the bordering countries of Laos, and Cambodia, North Vietnam and the DMZ with contingency planning for possible missions into China and Burma.
Mr. Black is also the author of Whisky Tango Foxtrot, where he recounts some of his time in the elite unit. You can, and should buy his book at the link below.
Mr. Black and some of his fellow unit members , were also featured on an episode of the History Channel’s Heroes Under Fire that details one of his many dramatic and inspiring missions. “Jungle Ambush”. You can buy and watch it at the link below.
This introduction was forwarded to me from Mr. Black from a previous interview for a brief background about himself. I include it so as to not make him type it all up again for our readers.
At first a small introduction to readers who you are and what SF groups you served?
Lynne M. Black Jr.: I was born April 22, 1945 at 10:00 a.m.; the same hour and day Hitler announced to his General Staff he would be committing suicide, the war was lost; coincidence I’m sure. I voluntarily joined the U.S. Army in June 1963 after graduation from High School. During school I had been working at a local television station art department as an artist. My boss was a World War II veteran who informed me I had a duty to perform for my country, and that the job would be waiting for me when I got back after three years.
I attended basic training at Fort Ord, California; Advanced Leadership School and Armor School at Fort Knox, Kentucky. During Armor School I was recruited into jump school at Fort Benning, Georgia and became a paratrooper assigned to the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I was assigned to a Cavalry Company on special assignment to 612 Quartermaster Arial Supply learning to rig personal parachutes and heavy drops, such as vehicles and ammunition. After six months with the 82nd Airborne I received orders for the 173rd Airborne Brigade (Separate) on Okinawa, Japan. I reported to D Company, 16th Armor sometime in April 1964.
May 12, 1965 we disembarked off the USS Mann in Saigon Harbor, and trucked to Bien Hoa to secure the air base. We had been told this would be a short police action and that we would all be back on Okinawa for Christmas.
One of my two younger brothers, Hugh, was in the 173rd Engineering Company, which was mortared by an unseen enemy. Hugh’s injuries were critical and he was sent back home to Madigan General Hospital in Washington State. He spent several months recovering in the hospital and many more after he was released from military duty.
I spent thirteen months in Vietnam with the 173rd Airborne Brigade and have to say I never once saw the face of the enemy. They had nailed my younger brother and I was mad as hell and wanted revenge.
I got out of the Army July 1966 and moved to Hawaii where I worked in a television station art department watching the war on the nightly news; watching the gun fights from a safe place; watching the bodies coming home in metal boxes; talking with other veterans who said they had never seen the enemy, but had lost buddies to Viet Cong covert jungle tactics.
June 1967, I took and passed the Special Forces examination, and reenlisted reporting in at Fort Bragg, North Carolina to the 82nd Airborne Division. I was on a waiting list for the next Special Warfare School class; The Q Course. I had one goal in mind, to see the face of the enemy as I killed him. I would get even for the mortaring of my brother Hugh.
June 1968, I was back in Vietnam with classified orders for Military Assistance Command Vietnam/Studies and Observations Group (MACV/SOG).
I was initially assigned to Forward Operations Base – 1 (FOB-1) located outside Phu Bai just down the road from the old imperial capital city of Hue. Earlier that year during the Tet Offensive the area in and around Hue had seen a lot of battle. I and one of my classmates were assigned to Recon Team Alabama, which was a Vietnamese team. It was newly formed as most of the Americans’ and Vietnamese members had either been killed or severely wounded. Our first mission across the fence was October 5, 1968. We were to track a three thousand North Vietnamese Army Regiment down the Ho Chi Minh trail in order to collect intelligence. What we ran into that day was a Division of ten thousand; we inserted by helicopter right into the middle of them.
I have chronicled that day in the first chapter of my book, which is titled Whisky Tango Foxtrot. The History Channel also created a show titled Jungle Ambush, which was one in a series called Heroes Under Fire.
I served with MACV/SOG in the Recon Company for 25 months under the codename of Blackjack before getting out of the Army for the second and last time. As I stated earlier I began with RT Alabama at FOB-1, moved to RT Idaho just before we closed down Phu Bai, FOB-1 and moved to FOB-4 the Danang Command & Control North (CCN) headquarters.
Above intro was excerpted from previous interview by collectors.eu and provided by Mr. Black for our readers.
1.The Colt CAR15 is well known for being used by SOG, how well did you like it or did you prefer something else? By most accounts it seems to have been well loved.-LR
The Colt CAR 15 was an excellent weapon in that it was light, accurate, short and ergonomically suited for jungle warfare. It didn’t hang up in the brush or rust like the M14 or other all metal weapons. The majority of my time was spent in Laos and the DMZ which were heavy brush and mountainous. Our enemy contact, due to the terrain, was usually close and intense.
This topic has been talked to death over the years. So, here’s my experience and two cents worth. The M16s we were issued in 1965 fired the .223 round which was marginally suited for the weapon; there were many extraction and ejection problems. These issues got some of our guys killed or wounded and forever cast a cloud over the M16.
When I went back for a second tour the military had alleviated many of the malfunction issues, but exacerbated another which was the overheating of the barrel; especially on full auto. Both the M16 and the CAR15 had thin “pencil” barrels which did not handle heat effectively. Hence the pictures of a lot of us having a glove on our left hands to deal with the heat.
Those AR platforms were designed by Stoner to handle a .22 magnum round and that level of recoil. All that said, by military standards the CAR15 was exceptionally light, accurate and lethal. The majority of jungle warfare is close encounter, so in my opinion, vegetation penetration was not an issue. It is well documented that when the 5.56 round hits bone that it can ricochet inside the human body causing extensive damage; that’s a plus not a minus in war. If I were in camp defense mode I’d choose an M14 or a BAR over the CAR15 due to shooting at greater distances. It’s just about choosing the right tool for the job.
The AK47 (7.62×39) is a good weapon in the hands of a big man that can wield it. The Vietnamese are not big enough to effectively handle the AK47. They can’t control its barrel climb on full auto and on average take a lot longer time to regain their sight picture on single shot. Also, the recoil pounding the shooter is far greater with the AK than a 5.56. If you’re the guy they’re shooting at this is good news; averages are on your side. The round the A47 fires is excellent. The AK47 is reliable but not as accurate as the M16 or CAR15.
Much of the debate is around a thing referred to as stopping power. A 7.62 round will easily pass through the human body. Unless it hits a vital organ, makes a head shot, or cripples the target can keep moving. The 5.56 round will also pass through but if it comes in contact with bone will often ricochet and cause even more internal damage. Take your pick. No matter what caliber fired, a kill shot is a kill shot.
- Did you make any changes to your carbine for you personally? Many pictures have been seen with forward grips attached to CAR15s among other things and I wonder if that was done by the users or an armorer. -LR
The only change I made to the CAR was the temporary addition of an experimental 40mm grenade launcher. I used it on a couple missions and found it to be awkward and not as accurate as the sawed-off usually carried. The only good news about it was it allowed my hand to be further away from the hot front grip during a firefight. Normally I wore a glove on my left hand to be able to handle the barrel heat.
I don’t recall ever seeing anyone with a forward grip on their CAR during my two years in SOG, so I can’t answer that question
- When on missions did you or your peers carry a sidearm/pistol as a secondary weapon? And if so what was it and where was it normally carried? Many books mention carrying handguns but few photos give any indication where on the body or field gear it was carried.-LR
I carried a Browning Hi Power on a lanyard around my neck with the pistol tucked into an inside pocket of the One Zero vest. I considered it to be part of my E&E gear or to be used when I ran out of 5.56 or 40mm.
Many of the Americans carried a Browning, Colt .45, silenced Hi Standard twenty two, Smith & Wesson Combat Masterpiece, and other personal firearms. They were carried in holsters, rucksacks and pockets.-LB
- Could you tell us what other weapons you may have carried during your time in the war and how you liked each?-LR
I had three tours in Vietnam. The first was with the 173rd Airborne Brigade. The weapons I carried there were:
M14 – Not good for jungle patrols in that it was too heavy and long. Better suited for base camp defense and long range shooting. Great round and penetration.
Grease Gun (.45) – I have nothing nice to say about this weapon in that it would rust right before your eyes. The magazine springs were weak and we had to double them up. They continually had feeding problems to where we had to turn them upside down to gravity feed the rounds. This caused hot brass to eject onto forearm bare skin causing blisters, which became infected.
M16 – In 1965 the M16 was not a reliable weapon, which is well documented. We learned to tape the cleaning rod segments to the fore grip in case of shell casings being jammed in the receiver.
Colt .45 – I’m not a fan of the .45 for only one reason which is ergonomics. I couldn’t effectively wrap my hand around the grip and hang onto it after the first shot. I like the round. I don’t like the pistol.
M60 – Absolutely one of the worst light machine gun designs ever foisted on any military unit. As long as you were in a fixed position, with an assistant gunner, were in a level firing position and didn’t tilt or twist it on its side it fired. Otherwise it was a jamming piece of shit. I much preferred the Russian RPD.
Second and Third tours were with MACV SOG:
Browning Hi Power – For my hand a perfect ergonomic fit. I used it several times in combat and never saw a target get back up.
Tokarev – Fun to shoot in camp and on the range. I considered it to not be a field weapon for our area of operation.
Gyrojet – Love the concept of a .50 caliber rocket round, but … like all rockets the round had to build up inertia to penetrate its target. Firing it at anyone closer than 15 feet away would only piss them off and cause a big bruise. How do I know that? I was shot in the stomach with one from about six feet. The round hit my belt buckle and knocked me down. Bruised the hell out of me for a couple weeks. At lethal distance they were not accurate. We gave the weapon back to the armorer.
Spanish Star 9mm (Silenced) – Specialty weapon to be used in prisoner snatches. Functional, no pro’s or con’s.
Llama 9mm (Silenced) – Specialty weapon to be used in prisoner snatches. Functional, no pro’s or con’s.
High Standard .22 (Silenced) – Specialty weapon to be used in prisoner snatches. Functional, no pro’s or con’s.
British Sten Gun 9mm and .45 (Silenced) – Specialty weapon to be used in prisoner snatches. Functional, no pro’s or con’s.
Swedish K 9mm – Loved this submachine gun. Perfect for close in fighting with minimal recoil. Great for one day in and out missions due to the weight.
AK47 – Good cyclic rate of fire. Not accurate. Poor recoil ergonomics on full auto causing extreme barrel climb. The North Vietnamese had difficulty staying on target … thank god.
CAR15 – Primary Weapon: Can’t imagine a better jungle warfare weapon. Because of my experience with the M16 during the first tour I taped cleaning rod pieces to the fore grip. Never experienced a jam or malfunction of any kind with the CAR.
40 mm Grenade Launcher (Sawed Off) – Handheld artillery. We didn’t operate in areas where artillery support could reach us. We improvised by sawing off the barrels and stocks of M79 Grenade Launchers. Doing this resulted in no loss of accuracy or range. The versatility of rounds from high explosive, buckshot, gas, flares, etc. was very useful.
Russian RPD – We used this in place of the American M60 as it was much more reliable and versatile.-LB
- During the Vietnam War some very early optics were used like the colt 3x and 4x and the early red dots, did you use or see used any of those early optics?-LR
I range tested each of them as they became available and they did everything as advertised. However, I found them to be useless due to the kind of missions we ran. Generally we were operating in close and most of us were instinct shooters.
Instinct or snap shooting is a whole other topic worth describing. When I went through the Special Forces Qualification Course (Q Course) for weapons one of the things taught was instinct shooting. An instructor took four of us into a room with tall ceilings. We were each given a Red Ryder BB Gun and each stood in one of the corners. The instructor tossed number 10 can lids up and we had to hit it with one shot. When we walked out of that room, after picking up all the BB’s, we were hitting 8 out of 10. They loaded us on a truck and to the range we went. We shot at pop up targets with M16’s without sighting and hit our average of 8 out of 10. That technique also works with pistols. Sights became obsolete for jungle fighters.
6. Always an ongoing topic of interest, the individual gear and items is something people who read about SOG are curious to learn . Can you tell us what was carried on your person for mission?
7.Back to the CAR15, pictures exist of the gun with a cleaning rod taped to it to clear stuck cases. Was this also a practice of yours? Did you know of any of your fellow SOG vets having to use it in a fight?-LR
This picture of my CAR15 being held by our hooch maid is a good example of the cleaning rod being taped below the hand guard. By the way, she was a damn good shot.-LB
8.Of all the configuration of the current M4/M4A1 and its various rails, optics lights/laser offering nearly endless variations. If you could have had them in your time in SOG, is there a combination of carbine and part of the SOPMOD kit for it you would like to have had back then for your missions in SOG?-LR
The short biased answer is NO. The current weapons are set up for long range sandbox warfare and are heavier with so much stuff to get hung up in the brush. Wrong weapon for jungle warfare.L
I know that I have talked about this before, and I promise you I will talk about it again.
While I was in the Marine Corps we shot a qualification course of fire at the distances of 200, 300, and 500 yards. Using the 8/3 sights of the M16A2 we used the markings on it for 300 and 500, and adjusted it 2 clicks down from 8/3 small gap for 200 yards.
When I got out of the Corps, I found much to my dismay that the carry handle sights I used would bottom out on 8/3 or 6/3 if it was a detachable sight. Turns out they come from the factory that way. The intent is that the small peep is used from 300+ and you would use the larger 0-2 aperture on 6/3 or 8/3 for a 200 yard zero during low light or close range shooting.
Turned out the Marines would modify the sights to allow for a 200 yard zero. And this modification is as simple as loosening a screw.
Now to back track for a moment. On a rifle length AR15, a fixed carry handle with the 8/3 sight will have a 1 Minute of Angle (MOA) change in impact per click of the elevation wheel. The detachable carry handle will have an adjustment of 1/2 MOA. On the carbine, this adjustment is about 3/4 MOA.
So from the factory, the AR rear sight will bottom out on 8/3 or 6/3. We call this small gap.
One full turn puts you on a 800 yard zero on a fixed carry handle, and 600 on the detachable carry handle. We call this the large gap. That size of the gap lets you quickly identify which of those settings the sight is on.
To allow you to set the sight for a 100 or 200 yard zero, you need to allow the drum to rotate below 8/3 or 6/3. You will need a small Allen Wrench. I’ve found that this wrench size is not the same on all brands of carry handles.
When the rear sight peep is up and the sight is aligned on 6/3 or 8/3 , you can insert a small Allen Wrench into a screw.
DO NOT REMOVE THAT SCREW.
Just loosen it a turn or two. This will allow you to rotate the bottom section of the elevation drum.
On a 8/3 drum, -2 clicks gives a 200 yard zero. 8/3 -3 for 100.
For the 6/3 drum, double the number of clicks. -4 for 200, and -6 for 100.
Snug the screw back down, and double check that you have the right number of clicks. Zero your rear sight normally and then you will be able to dial your rear sight down for a 100 yard zero.
Today’s article is a repost from our deceased friend Hognose, owner of Weaponsman.com. Kevin, AKA Hognose passed away last year and as an ongoing tribute to his memory and excellent work we repost the his works to help preserve it.
In 1967, the Army got the idea to study whether, how, and how effectively different units were using snipers in Vietnam. They restricted this study to Army units, and conventional units at that; if SF and SOG were sniping, they didn’t want to know (and, indeed, there’s little news either in the historical record or in conversations with surviving veterans that special operations units made much use of precision rifle fire, or of the other capabilities of snipers).
Meanwhile, of course, the Marines were conducting parallel development in what would become the nation’s premier sniper capability, until the Army got their finger out in the 1980s and developed one with similar strength. The Marines’ developments are mentioned only in passing in the study.
The study observed several different sniper weapons in use:
- ordinary M16A1 rifles with commercial Realist-made scopes. This is the same 3×20 scope made by Realist for commercial sale under the Colt name, and was marked Made in USA. (Image is a clone, from ARFCOM).
- Winchester Model 70s in .30-06 with a mix of Weaver and Bushnell scopes, purchased by one infantry brigade;
- two versions of the M14 rifle. One was what we’d call today a DMR rifle, fitted with carefully chosen parts and perhaps given a trigger job, and an M84 scope. The other was the larva of the M21 project: a fully-configured National Match M14 fitted with a Leatherwood ART Automatic-Ranging Telescope, which was at this early date an adaptation of a Redfield 3-9 power scope. (Image is a semi clone with a surplus ART, found on the net).
The scopes had a problem that would be unfamiliar to today’s ACOG and Elcan-sighted troopies.
The most significant equipment problem during the evaluation in Vietnam was moisture seepage into telescopes. At the end of the evaluation period, 84 snipers completed questionnaires related to their equipment. Forty-four of the snipers reported that their telescopes developed internal moisture or fog during the evaluation period. In approximately 90 percent of the cases, the internal moisture could be removed by placing the telescope in direct sunlight for a few hours.
The leaky scopes ranged from 41% of the ARTs to 62% of the Realists. The Realist was not popular at all, and part of the reason was its very peculiar reticle. How peculiar? Have a look.
(A later version of this scope, sold by Armalite with the AR-180, added feather-thin crosshairs to the inverted post. The British Trilux aka SUIT used a similar inverted post, but it never caught on here).
The theory was that the post would not obscure the target, the way it would if it were bottom-up. That’s one of the ones you file away in the, “It seemed like a good idea at the time,” drawer. Theory be damned, the troops hated it.
The use of the rifles varied unit by unit. Two units contemptuously dismissed the scoped M16s, and wouldn’t even try them (remember, this was the era of M193 ammo, rifles ruined by “industrial action,” and somewhat loose acceptance standards; the AR of 20145 is not the AR of 1965). The proto-M21s came late and not every unit got them. It’s interesting that none of the weapons really stood out, although the NATO and .30-06 guns were the ones used for the longest shots.
None of the weapons was optimum, but in the study authors’ opinion, the DMR version of the M14 was perfectly adequate and available in channels. The snipers’ own opinions were surveyed, and the most popular weapon was the M14 National Match with ART scope, despite its small sample size: 100% of the surveyed soldiers who used it had confidence in it. On the other hand, the cast scope rings were prone to breakage.
The biggest maintenance problem turned out to be the COTS Winchester 70 rifles, and the problem manifested as an absence of spare parts for the nonstandard firearm, and lack of any training for armorers.
Looking at all the targets the experimental units engaged, they concluded that a weapon with a 600 meter effective range could service 95% of the sniper targets encountered in Vietnam, and that a 1000 meter effective range would be needed to bag up to 98%. (Only one unit in the study engaged targets more distant than 1000 m at all).
Snipers were generally selected locally, trained by their units (if at all), and employed as an organic element of rifle platoons. A few units seem to have attached snipers to long-range patrol teams, or used the snipers as an attached asset, like a machine-gun or mortar team from the battalion’s Weapons Company.
An appendix from the USAMTU had a thorough run-down on available scopes, and concluded with these recommendations (emphasis ours):
a. That the M-14, accurized to National Match specifications, be used as the basic sniping rifle.
b. That National Match ammunition be used in caliber 7.62 NATO.
c. That a reticle similar to Type “E” be used on telescopic sights of fixed power.
d. That the Redfield six power “Leatherwood” system telescope be used by snipers above basic unit level.
e. That the Redfield four power (not mentioned previously) be utilized by the sniper at squad level.
f. That serious consideration be given to the development of a long range sniping rifleusing the .50 caliber machine gun cartridge and target-type telescope.
(NOTE: It is our opinion that the Redfield telescope sights are the finest of American made telescopes.)
Note that the Army adopted the NM M14 with ART (as the M-21 sniper system) exactly as recommended here, but that it did not act on the .50 caliber sniper system idea. That would take Ronnie Barrett to do, quite a few years later.
The Effects of Terrain
Terrain drives weapons employment, and snipers need, above all, two elements of terrain to operate effectively: observation and fields of fire. Their observation has to overlook enemy key terrain and/or avenues of approach. Without that, a sniper is just another rifleman, and snipers were found to be not worth the effort in the heavily vegetated southern area of Vietnam.
In the more open rice fields and mountains, there was more scope for sniper employment. But sniper employment was not something officers had been trained in or practiced.
The Effects of Leadership
In a careful review of the study, we found that the effects of leadership, of that good old Command Emphasis, were greater than any effects of equipment or even of terrain. The unit that had been getting good results with the Winchesters kept getting good results. One suspects that they’d have continued getting good results even if you took their rifles away entirely and issued each man a pilum or sarissa.
Units that made a desultory effort got crap for results. Some units’ snipers spent a lot of time in the field, but never engaged the enemy. Others engaged the enemy, but didn’t hit them, raising the question, “Who made these blind guys snipers?” Sure, we understand a little buck fever, but one unit’s snipers took 20 shots at relatively close range and hit exactly nothing. Guys, that’s not sniping, that’s fireworks.
The entire study is a quick read and it will let you know just how dark the night for American sniping was in the mid-1960s: there were no schools, no syllabi, no type-standardized sniper weapons, and underlying the whole forest of “nos” was: no doctrine to speak of.
Today we have another product from the company with the historic name in firearms history. I have reviewed 2 of their growing M1 family of rifles in the past two years and so far they gave all been great.
The prize for me was getting a sample of the paratrooper carbine. Man, who doesn’t want to play with such an iconic gun from WWII? I never saw a real one in the 80s or 90s. But we all sure saw them in Saving Pvt Ryan and Band of Brothers. In fact we all saw them so much the price for one went up to roughly the amount spent on the Manhattan project. Getting a real one was pretty tough even though the stocks could be bought and put on a standard model.
Then we started to see remakes come out on the market over the last few years. And in my opinion the rest of them are crap. I have played around with the ones made by the other makers and rthey are dreadful. I passed up a auto ord. example it was so crummy.
But the Inland model is another matter. After the M1 and the experience with it, I was pretty sure the paratrooper would be in the same league. And., it was.
The gun has the same rear sight as the other Inland models. The adjustable type that some dislike because its not the simple rear fixed peep but I love it. I appreciate some adjustment on any rifle I expect to want to shoot past 50 yards. And contrary to the videos of some worthies, they do stay put. I fired 500 rounds through this gun and it stayed put. On top of that I tossed it in the back of a truck bed and drove around on the top of a mountain off trail for 6 hours. That is pretty rough on stuff but it was still tight as a mouses ear.
The controls on the gun are the same as the other models with the push button safety and the button mag release that sometimes I hit by mistake. A common mistake it seems.
Now the stock. It is a metal wire stock with a leather “cheek piece” for some kind of comfort.
It doesn’t offer up much though. But it is not mean to be a McMililan fully adjustable target stock. It’s meant to be a light folding stock for guys dropping behind lines with twice their weight in gear to fight for a hand full of days. It works just fine for that.
I was a little surprised how the felt recoil of the 30 carbine was increased with the weight of the full wood stock gone. Now it wasn’t painful or anything close to that, but you do notice it when shooting the two models nearly back to back like I have been doing this past year.
To fold the stock.. well, you just fold it. It does not lock in place and require the pressing of a button . It hinges open , clicks and is held open via spring. When you want to fold it, just fold it. It lays down the left side of the gun and still allows the gun to be fired. The butt plate can rotate to the side I assume to let the gun lie more flat in its case? I really have no idea why it was made to let the butt plate rotate to the side. it doesn’t lock or lock to anything and it doesn’t function as the mechanism that you use to unlock the stock to fold or unfold it. I guess some one decided to make it that way for a reason that seemed good at the time. Maybe Dan will comment below and offer up and explanation.
The”pistol grip” is a little short for my hand and blocky. But I would want it that way for a gun I would be jumping out of a plane with. It needs to be thick, chunky and tough. It is. It also has at the bottom the rear sling mounting point which is a tough metal part that is part of the folding stock assembly.
Now, how did it shoot? Great. Even with the stock not locking and place and allowing some wiggle.
I couldn’t find as large selection of .30carbine ammo to test as I would have liked. I even resorted to some ammo from the 70s to have enough to offer a variety. There are some very high dollar high quality specialty duty loads for the .30carbine out there you can find. The bottom group in fact was shot using the federal police duty load.
I fired all groups from a bench and bags at 50 yards using the iron sights. I feel this is a reasonable test of its accuracy to shoot groups because the size of the peep is not great for my eyes. Not to mention using 3/4 inch sized dots as aiming points get hard to see through iron sights at much distance and eye strain starts fast.
I did shoot the carbine at 100 yards for group using iron sights. It took an hour to put this group on target but it was worth the extra effort. The armscor brand ball ammo shooting great. It was my favorite ammo to use in the M1s over the last years. You can see that is well within head shot sized
Like the other M1s, I fired out to 200 and 300 yards on steel man’s chest sized targets and hit without issue. That is perfectly doable with the M1 if you are a competent shot .
Not much to say about weather testing this one since it just this week got cold enough for me to treat it like I did the last two and my time with it is up. I did leave it out all night last night in snow and 7 degree temps. I walked outside , chambered a round and fired it. What a shock! It penetrate a cinderblock! How could that be when “experts” on older weapons say that it just can’t happen! ? Must have been a one off fluke.
The next day I made this little test . I soaked the gun in a frozen creek for a few hours in 8 degree temp.
The gun is reliable accurate and looks great. It is the solution if you want a nice example that you can shoot without the guilt of a real one being further worn. I think if I was a real but about WWII airborne units and their gear it would be a must have for me. If you buy your own, you can pretend to be in 101st or 82nd or 17th airborne shooting up the krauts. Or if you really did those things, it would maybe be nice to have your old friend in your hands again if you carried and liked the weapon. Some say they hated it. But the M1 carbine was much loved by Audie Murphy.
I certainly enjoyed taking some mood and glamour shots with WW2 items.
I been waiting on this gun for a while. After testing the Inland USGI clone M1911A1 I had been impressed. I had seen this model in media release material and after the performance of the stock Inland I was really curious to see how an Inland done up as a fully modern pistol would do.
I have had this gun for nearly 6 months as I write this. I kept it and waited so long to write about it because I wanted to really be hard on it. It is more expensive than the 1911s I usually write about. If you have been reading this website a long time you will know that I even don’t normally go for 1911s that start going over the 1500 dollar mark. My philosophy with the 1911 is less than about 800 or more than about 1600 and as a rule, a lot of 1911s will give you one set of problems or another. Too cheap speaks for itself. Too high and you get into finely tuned special purpose guns that can’t take WW1 trench conditions no matter what the maker may claim. With a few exceptions of course. Heirloom precision, Derr precisions, guns that are mil spec but have something else about them that drives the price up like coatings, engraving or rarity. Now you may not agree with me at all and I am sure many will but I have been using the 1911 for 30 years now and in my personal experience, 1911s that cost over 1600 dollars and are made by medium sized companies that make “custom production” 1911s , usually will give problems. Bigger established firms can make ones that work fine and the small artists like Jason Burton does but the in between places I pass on. That is one man’s opinion from experience only.
Now the Inland gun is one of those made in the middle ground I just mentioned. And, being in the “custom production ” class that sets off my 2nd warning flag. After spending a fortune on ammo, I can say to you it’s good to go. It is as good as the M1911A1 USGI clone with match accuracy.
So lets get to it.
The gun is what it says and with all the features that implies. As seen above the frontstrap is checkered with aggressive well done checkering. That bad camera angle makes it look uneven for some reason but its not.
main spring housing has matching checkering and is flat and not arched. The grip safety is the upswept beaver tail with the memory bump to insure you depress it.
You can see the single side extended safety. I really like the part as it is close to the safety that is my personal favorite. Just to see what would happen, I removed it and tried 5 different colt and USGI safety locks and all dropped in place. That is a good sign in my opinion. I like my 1911s to meet or approach the milspec requirement to have interchangeable parts.
The magazine well has a very slight bevel. That is one thing I did wonder about. I am not a big fan of extended beveled wells but a to of people are. If you buy this gun you will have to add your own.
You can see the other features of the gun. Competition style skeleton hammer, Match trigger that really does break like a glass road and is lighter than my own guns. Front and rear slide serrations which I love and prefer on guns like this. A full carry dehorning and no slip grips. The one bad thing was it came with a full length guide rod which isn’t too bad but it was the two piece part. I asked why it had the full length guide rod and was told the first guns didn’t and so many people complain wanting it that Inland added it to appease the complainers. That baffles me because I was under the impression it had finally fallen out of the fad but apparently there are still a lot of people that like it for its looks or because they think a custom or competition pistol is “supposed” to have it.. I replaced the guide rod with a personally owned GI part after my first session shooting it. I fired 15 wilson 10 round mags through it non stop with no oil to see how it did and at the end noticed the two piece rod had unscrewed itself. Don’t use two piece full guide rods people. Barrel is the same match barrel used in the USGI model and is fitted to match spec without being over tight. Lastly you can see the standard ejection port work common to all modern carry guns.
Rear sight is black novak style with a wide notch.
Front is matching flat black wider blade. These sights work great for me and are fast to use. Both can be drifted out with a punch if you want something else. I would leave them be myself.
Now on to how it shot. I fired all but the last group from sandbagged position from a bench. Temp outside was 11 degrees.
As usual the speer ball ammo is pretty lackluster no matter what its used in. But I include it because it is common around here and a lot of people buy it for plinking.
Above is the Winchester personal defense load that is basically the black talon bullet not coated black and sold every where. It always does well for me and this gun was no different .
Here above we have the other NOT -black talon, but the “ranger T” which is a black talon +P load in the winchester ranger police duty load. And of course for those who don’t know it is once again the black talon bullet just not black.
Best group fired with my handloaded Hornady 185 grain jacketed semi wad cutter match bullet.
Above is the most expensive group fired. This is my carry load of corbon 185 grain +P solid copper hollow points. Very accurate and effective. I can’t recommend this load or the Barnes version of it enough. You can also buy the same load marketed under the Colt Brand ammo I and a various other specialty brands.
Below is a group fired with my personal favorite ball round, the winchester 230 FMJ which always seems a bit more accurate than other bulk buy ball ammo for general use.
Lastly we have the 100 yard long range shot by request. As I mentioned before, the long range shooting was requested by reader who was also a fellow visitor to Weaponsman’s blog who wanted to see some one give users an idea of what carry guns could do if ever the need became a requirement in a self defense situation or other emergency. It instantly became a new standard policy for me to test such things. It is something you should think about and try to test the limits of your own carry guns and ability because it is something that very well could save your life or stop some kook like we have seen recently.
Group was fired at 100 yards. I did not use a full sand bag bench rest but I did use a support like one would use in real life. Center of circle was aiming point. I used my most accurate load as a bit of a cheat and not a pure self defense or duty load. Ideally people carrying would select the most accurate duty load they can regardless of intended distance they expect to shoot. I think I can’t ask much more out of the Inland Custom carry.
The Inland is a 1911 I would own and use. And you know how picky I am about my 1911s and who makes them. Word from Inland is, some even bigger and better things are coming in their 1911s. I look forward to what is coming, I would like to tell you now but these things are not always something they are ready to share publicly without asking permission first. But I am excited from what I hear.
The custom carry is a solid carry gun that is also competition ready. The rep who sent it to me had been using this same model for matches for several months before I requested a sample. You can use it for about anything you would want, I really don’t know what more to say about it. It worked. No excitement. It was as reliable as a claw hammer. Buy with confidence . not only can it do all those things well it can also protect you from those damn dirty apes.
If you want more out of my pistol reviews please speak up. I know reading pistol reviews can get dull and they are the same over time. It sometimes feels writing them is as semi boring as reading them. I am always looking for ideas of how to spice it up. If you want more video or mud tests or further ranges shot comment below. Tell me what you would like to see. Nothing pointless but anything you want to see that would help you decide if a gun is right for you or what would test its limits please speak up.