Started a little firearm project. I really shouldn’t mentioned it until it is finished. But I thought it might be more fun to give live updates.
I ordered most everything on the June 21st. Lets see how long it takes me to get the stuff in. I’ll give you more details as I get the parts.
Time for us to upgrade LooseRounds.com.
We have a ton of good content, we are getting close to a thousand posts. But that means that much of our best work is buried away and is hard to fine. We need to make it more visible. We need a better way to help you find the content you want to read. We also need a better way where you can comment and tell us what you think.
What do you want to see in an updated LooseRounds.com?Comment on this post with your requests and suggestions.
Oh, the issue with images not being enlargeable should be fixed going forward, but we don’t way to easily fix that in the old posts.
“With the emergence of the M16 as the principal infantry arm of the US ground combat forces in South Vietnam, the major thrust of suppressor development was centered on the 5.56mm rifle. The USAMTU had been actively involved with suppressor testing during the course of Army revaluations. So far as the AMTU was concerned, if there were certain benefits to be gained by field use of a suppressor-equipped M16 rifle, then fitting a similar device to an accurized rifle “offered endless possibilities” for combat use in Vietnam. ” -Senich
While suppressed guns had been used in past wars ,their use and development during the war in Vietnam was the golden age of silencers in use as more than assassinations or sabotage special missions. The effectiveness of long range fire on enemy at night or day light with out being able to determine true range or direction can not be questioned . The impact of the effectiveness of knowing friendly troops have suppressor equipped rifles even has an effect to their fellow soldiers. “ I would see these guys from time to time, they would come in just after first light and I couldn’t help thinking how damn glad I was they were on our side” To many US troops the sight of other US combat personnel with suppressed rifles made and impression.
Even though rack grade M16s with suppressors had been issued for specialized units for covert missions and regular forces for long range patrols, recon, and ambush missions no official organized program existed for fielding optic equipped suppressed M16s. Examples of M16s with optics and suppressors are seen in many pictures, but usually this was an example of individual initiative or small units going about it in a quasi official manner.
Official documents from as early as May 1966 show that a program to field suppressed M16s to RVN had began. The USARV submitted an ENSURE request for “silencers for the M16A1rifle.” Even so, it took a considerable amount of time before examples were sent to RVN for combat testing.
Most of the examples sent to VN for testing and use are the US Army Human Engineering Lab, Frankford Arsenal and Scionics inc. After testing it was concluded that all models did reduce a noticeable amount of muzzle noise from the M16, they all also came with issues and an increased in cleaning.
During the testing and fielding it did not take long for users to bring up the idea of sub sonic ammunition to increase the effectivness of noise reduction. From the book by Gary Douglas , A LRRP’s Narrative.
” I let Crowe carry my M16 with silencer. We had a number of 556mm rounds bootlegged, using low velocity powder and soft lead bullets that did make the suppressor quite effective .. The lead bullets worked fine, except for the one drawback. You had to hand cycle each round. “
Of course making sub sonic ammo is well thing the means of ammo producers or handloaders but making sub sonic ammo that would cycle the action of the rifle is another matter Not to mention the obvious requirement for effective terminal performance and range. One problem encountered was with making sub sonic ammo was the now empty space inside the case. They found quickly that if the bore was pointed down, the powder would fall to the front of the case away from the primer resulting in failure of ignition or delayed ignition.
“A concerted effort was made to develop suitable subsonic ammunition. However, a major problem came as a result of the reduced powder loading. When the M16 round was down loaded there was only a small amount of powder in the case, When the weapon was angled downward the powder showed the tendacy to move forward in the case, away from the primer and ignition was either irregular or nonexistent. I was necessary to emply filler on top of the powder charge, Numerous substance such as oatmeal, cream of wheat, and cotton were tried; all with disastrous results. After firing a few rounds the rifle gas port and suppressor became clogged with the inert filler.” Donald G Thomas -Scionics
The method to finally cure this was to use an epoxy inserted into the case in a way that left a small central cavity for the powder. An effective but very time consuming and expensive. The end result being that the vast majority of suppressors used and issued during the war were used with standard service ammunition.
By the end of the War , the Scionics MAW-A1 suppressor was the model deemed the most suitable and durable for use on the M16 rifle.
The suppressed M16 became a very effective tool for operations in South Vietnam, especially for small recon teams. My mentor served in a ranger company on LRRP missions in the 199th Brigade and carried a suppressed M16. He tells of ambushing a group of Viet Cong one night while cooking their dinner.
” They were about 5o yards away and it was almost night . They were sitting around a fire cooking and smoking dope. One had his back to me and I shot him in the back of the head. He immediately fell over onto the fire and the look on the faces of his friends was pure terror. The shock of being sprayed with their buddies head, not hearing the shot and being stoned really took its toll Then the rest of the team opened up on them “
He was made more or less the team sniper and liked the suppressor and M16 combo. He did say that in an emergency fight he had to fire on full auto and at a certain point the suppressor blew off the end of the barrel and “took off like a rocket”.
The Army would take some time before getting serious about suppressing M16 family of weapons for general or sniping use. It went on to focus on the Xm21 system and a suppressor for it. This combining 762mm semi auto rifles and suppressors of course went on to be more fully realized in the M110.
The concept of the M16 with suppressor was and is just too good to die. The military went on to field the KAC NT4 suppressor for the M4 and MK18 carbines. The with the more perfected idea from Vietnam of the M16 with suppressor in the excellent MK12 special purposes rifle using the Opcs inc. suppressor. Perhaps what many user in the Vietnam wished for.
All of the previous systems are no longer used or being phased out of and being replaced with newer designs. But the AMTU’s idea of a suppressed M16 is still as valid and useful as it was in the 60s.
I have always been skeptical about a lot of snake oil on the market for gun related uses. Oil, grease, solvent etc. I have seen very little of it that really does work and work as advertised.
Some of the products I have used for years and can say that it really does work as advertised are..
And now, Slipp2000 FOAMING BORE CLEANER.
I been using Slip2000 oil , grease and cleaner for about 10 years now near exclusively for my own personal use when I ain’t testing something new just to review. I trust it for using on my personal guns and long term care. I had no idea they had came out with a foaming bore cleaner until a month ago. I saw it at a cabellas and bought it up.
Now I have tried a lot of the foaming bore cleaners on the market and have not been impressed with any of the usual names. The Breakfree CLP one works OK if you add using a bore brush and a few soaks and some solvent. The others are really crap. The Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner being the exception, It truly works as advertise.
A quick note. Foaming bore cleaner works but it can only do so much. It works best on a a quality barrel. Your stainless match barrels. you chrome lined AR15 barrels, modern factory barrels. It will not clean your pitted and rusted Mosin barrel or your shot out ruined by corrosive ammo 1903 barrel or any other rough as 7 miles of bad road bore. It will work just fine on barrels that are in good shape but just dirty.
The Slip2000 FBC works. The Slip2000 has really become a brand name I trust and after trying the foam I would almost say to you I would just about completely trust anything new they make based on its maker alone.
One of the best parts of the SLIP stuff is that is will not poison you or give you a third arm growing out of your head or render you sterile. I spent many years in the 80s and 90s foolishly never caring much about cleaning chemicals for guns and getting gallons of CLP and LSA and military bore cleaner all over my hands. Not very wise. Damage is probably already done but no need for anyone to follow in my footsteps.
Now , it will work if you just spray it in let it set and patch out and follow with some oil. That will suffice on most guns depending on what round was being used and how much. But I still follow a soaking with my normal 20 brush strokes. As I have said before I count one through and one pull back to be 1 stroke. I may even add a little solvent to the brush before I do those 20 brush strokes. Usually carbon cutter or TM solutions depending on which one is closest to me. I then still patch out with a clean wet with solvent patch a couple times before dry patching to finish. You don’t have to do that. But I do it as it is habit. And it will certainly help if you are cleaning a very dirty or fouled barrel. Alternatively you can soak the barrel with a 2nd spray of the foam and a quick brush if you rather do that. Foaming cleaner is not a miracle worker it does take time to work. It does save a considerable amount of time and work for most cleaning session though. I find it cuts my cleaning time in half at the least. Use common sense and don’t expect it to be the gun cleaning version of the all powerful one himself. obama that is.
Like other foams it comes with a hose to get into the chamber. Unlike others, it is a lot tougher and heavy duty and stays put.
I wouldn’t mention this stuff if it didn’t really work for me. If you like foaming bore cleaners or you have been curious I do recommend giving the Slip 2000 one a try. Give the entire like a try. You won’t be disappointed If you are, I will refund you what you paid for this article and beat Duncan with a steel rod for puhishment.
Spikes Tactical is selling this great product. Get it here.
The Cobra arrived from Colt last week and now that it is in my hot little hands, the long promised review can start.
The Cobra came out over a year ago and made some noise as Colt’s noteworthy return to double action revolvers.
A lot of people who want Pythons have griped about it because it is not the Python they have been demanding in recent years . All I can say to that is 1) How many of those people were buying those much desired Pythons when colt was still making them and trying to sell them? There is a reason Colt stops making a certain model and it is not because they were selling too many of them. 2) Just hold your horses and see how well this “test the waters” revolver goes, and you may get what you claim you want later.
Colt has wisely decided to not jump elbow deep into making DA wheel guns again by making the kind of revolver most people who buy and carry revolvers actually want and carry. This may seem to not make sense to come people when the look online and see all the clamoring for the Pythons. Well think about all the times you have been on a web forum and seen people telling some company “Oh, if you make that, you will get all the money!” Sometimes they even proclaim they would buy one. In reality, they won’t. In fact, most of them saying it won’t. Fact is a lot of people like the idea of something being out there, even if they have no plans to every buy it. Or it would not be exactly the way the wanted it. The barrel would be too long, or too short, or the wrong finish, or it would be too expensive or too cheap, or it would not be tactical enough.
With that in mind I think the new Cobra is a good way to test those treacherous waters. It does not cater to the guys who want 2,000 dollar Pythons just for collectors value, or the big bore handgun hunters. Neither of which are a majority. It is meant for the real majority. People who want to carry a small, compact simple revolver. Now lets take a look at it.
The Cobra has a stainless steel finish – not a bright polished stainless, but the nice balance of satin and matte. It has the iconic Colt cylinder release and the always present Colt Horse logo. The barrel has the rest of the Company info on the right side. If you wished you could get one in a polished mirror like finish, the good news is you can polish this finish into a mirror yourself with some elbow grease and the right compounds. A lot of buyers have already done this and you can see how to videos on YouTube and gun forums. I love the look of that mirror finish polished SS but for carry… I scratch guns up too fast and the reflection that polished stainless gives off makes me uncomfortable with the idea of carrying a gun so ostentatious. Not so much for fashion, but more for I don’t want it to be so obvious.
The muzzle of the barrel has a very nice recessed crown to protect it from damage. A very nice touch for a gun meant to be used and used seriously.
As you can see above, the front sight is a fiber optic red/orange that shows up well in daylight and gathers all available light when light conditions would make a plain front sight blade hard to see.
The rear sight is the standard revolver humped up back with notch for alignment. Which is what you would want from a gun many will stick in a purse, a pocket, or who knows what else that would make it easy to snag a rear sight on when trying to draw. Or have on a belt, that would allow an adjustable sight to tear the lining out of shirts, jackets, or coats.
The left side of the barrel tells you what you are shooting. The Cobra is a .38 Special rated for +P rounds. I know a few have said they would rather it have been in .357 Magnum and at first I agreed. Then I remembered how it feels to shoot a .357 in a gun that small and light and how many people with a .357 gun in this size never really carry .357 loads in it anyway and just use .38 Spl and reconsidered. The .38 Spl in a modern +P load is enough. It allows the gun to be a bit smaller and not as expensive as well and it sure is easier on the hand for most people who carry more than they ever shoot. It makes me wonder how well Cobra chambered in 9mm or 45ACP would would sell though. As I said above though, lots of people ask for all manner of odd ball things from gun makers. Usually it’s only something the person demanding it would buy.
With loading in mind, the grip are nice soft comfy Hogue rubber grips but with the Colt logo. These feel great for shooting hot loads. Now Colt offers the Cobra with other choices in grips. My favorite being the ones made by VZ Grips with the Colt logo made into the G10 material .
Last on our list is the inside. Everyone knows what the inside of a DA revolver looks like. That is not what I want you to see. I want you to see what impressed me. The total lack of tool marks or swirls and all the things usually inside of a gun’s guts hidden from the outer world.
Other than some burnt powder crud, that is some smooth internals. It looks like it has had attention to detail lavished on it. This is what people talk about when they are going on about the Colt revolvers of yore. If you are a Colt wheel gun guy, I do not think you will be let down.
Now, the stock trigger of a DA revolver usually feels like trying to bend a nail to me. I am a single action semi auto guy to the core. I will never change. But this trigger feels good! Easy to keep the sights on target through the entire pull, and that is a challenge for me usually. Hand me a gun like this and I will always opt to cock it to single action fire if I have a choice. But with this one, I am seeing what draws some people to a fine DA 6 shooters. I have dry fired it for about 1 hour every night for 7 days, and I have learned a lot about how to quickly fire a DA revolver. If any of you 6 shooters have any tips for me, please share in the comments.
That is the end of Part 1 which is usually my thoughts on a guns looks, how it works, and the features, etc. In Part 2, we will get it fired up, see what accuracy it has, and shoot it as far as I can manage.
NOT MUCH FOR FIGHTING: THE M1903 SPRINGFIELD
OR
HAS LOOSEROUNDS GONE TOO FAR?!
There are some US military fire arms that enjoy the love and adoration of millions of people. These guns earned a reputation from major battles and wars. Guns that entire generations used to fight off the enemies of America large and small. The M1 Garand, the M1911, the M1 Carbine. The M14… ahem.. One of those seems to have a lure and romance about it equal to or maybe beyond even the M1 Garand. That being the United States Rifle, Caliber .30-06, Model 1903. Also known as the “’03” or “Springfield”.
The story of the M1903 being adopted as the US service rifle is pretty well known to anyone who knows anything about it. The US was not happy with the very finely made and smooth action-ed side loading Krag rifle and its .30-40 service round after being shot to pieces by Spanish Mausers in the Spanish American War. Something about being under effective long range rifle fire from the other guy while you can not return same really drives a demand for change.
The Army got together all the experts, took a look at the captured Spanish Mausers and decided the US Army needed to be using comparable. In fact it was so comparable that a law suit was brought about over just how comparable the 03 was to the Mauser.
After a being adopted the M1903 had its share of problems. A number of Pre WW1 rifles had brittle metal and and the receivers would come apart in various uncomfortable ways while shooting. The problem was figured out and fixed eventually but it is not advised to risk shooting any “low number” M1903.
After getting this squared away the rifle then went on to glory and ever lasting fame in the hands of Doughboys like Sgt York ( maybe.. maybe not reports vary) and the USMC and its marksmanship skill. Official accounts of Marines mowing down Germans from long range with their rifles tell of great marksmanship with great rifles and images are every where os snipers using the 03 for the dawn of modern sniping. Though it was the standard service rifle it was not the most widely issued and used rifle by the troops. That was actually the M1917. But even though the 03 was still the rifle most coveted by the US troops. As said by Cpl. Mike Shelton: “What we really wanted were Springfields. They were the best rifles in the war”.
But were they?
The 1903 is a fine, fine rifle with beautiful lines. It handles like a dream compared to most of its peers and was accurate enough to be used to the US team int he Olympics. This makes for a beautiful military bolt action rifle.
It has a very finely adjustable precision rear sight and blade front sight. When folded down the rear sight is the open V notch and very small. When extended the rear sight has a tiny peep sight that is adjustable for windage and elevation. The adjustment was so fine it was capable of very precise adjustments. When using a sling while prone on a nice sunny day at Camp Perry a rifleman could show what the 1903 could achieve. The story of the Farr cup trophy and why it has that name is a great example of just what can be done with the sights of the standard M1903.
Those things are all that great , but not for the combat of WW1.
The rear sight in on the front of the receiver. Too far away for best most efficient use. Trying to look through the tiny rear aperture was useless in low light. And the light didn’t have to be all that low to make it impossible to use. The rain and mud of the trenches and battlefield could find its way into that peep. The front sight blade was too small and easily damaged. Low light also renders it difficult to see. The front sight was so easily damaged that a thicker blade was used by the USMC and a protective hood was used. This did protect the front sight but it also allows a little less light in. It also capture mud into the hood and front sight assembly. That being a common thing with all hooded front sights.
The rear sight’s fine precision adjustments are just that. Finely made with micrometer like precision. And slow. Very slow to use. The marksmanship of some units like the USMC was at a high enough standard that the rifleman could adjust their rear sight for outstanding long range precision fire on enemy infantry and machine gun positions. But this was not as often done as many make it seem. Adjusting the rear sight for precise long range fire on moving targets at undetermined distance while under rain and with mud covered hands as artillery fell around them made using the long range sights a daydream for most. The rear sight does have an open notch for faster firing and and closer range but it is small and not easy for anyone with less than perfect vision. This sight was set for 547 yd (500 m), and was not adjustable. Not very useful for ranges most likely encountered when time is critical . It also had the problem of not being well protected. Something the sights on a battle rifle need to be in such an unforgiving environment. Later on the M1903A3 rifle had a more simple peep sight on the rear of the action closer to the eye. The peep sight was better for most infantry engagements and was an improvement over the original.
The M1903 had a typical for it’s day safety lever. It would be easy to complain about how slow it is to use if you need to fire quickly it was common. Other Bolt action combat rifles of the day had similar systems and a few had a fast and some what more natural feeling system .
One thing the military thought it needed was a magazine cut off. This little bit of brilliance was a lever that when activated would not allow the action to feed from the magazine. This would require you to load a single round by hand or flip it to allow magazine feed. The idea was you would fire and load one round at a time while keeping the internal magazine in reserve for when you really needed it and had no time to single feed by hand. This supposedly would save ammo. Either way it is always a dumb idea. It was dumb when it was on the Krag and it was dumb on the 1903. Especially since it could be unknowingly engaged.
None of of the things certainly deal killers or mentioned are deal killers or make the rifle useless by any means. The M1903 is a beautifully made gun and wonderfully accurate.
There is a reason for that old chestnut about service rifles from WW1. “The Germans brought a hunting rifle, the British brought a combat rifle and the US brought a target rifle.”
Now looking at the other option carried by US rifleman in WW1. The rifle at the time not as well admire but more widely issued and used. The M1917.
The M1917 was a rifle being made in the US for British troops in .303. When the US entered the war it did not have enough 1903s and there was no way to make enough in time. The decision was made to tweak the .303 rifle into using the .30.06 service round. This went off easily and the gun became the M1917 and was issued.
While it is heavier, it is built like a tank.
The magazine held one more round than the M1903. The safety was a lever on the right hand side. Much easier to quickly disengage.
The rear sight is positioned much closer to the eye and has a nice peep with a fold up sight for more precise longer range shooting. A great feature is the huge “ears” on each side that protects the rear sights from damage,
Another part of the M1917 that aids in fast action for combat is the action. Unlike the M1903 the M1917 cocks on closing. This may not seem like much of a difference but it is. In rapid fire it is much easier to work the bolt and cock it while rotating the bolt down with the speed and momentum of forcing the bolt forward then turning down opposed to cocking while lifting the bolt handle. The dog legged angled bolt handle is also very usable despite it’s oddball look. This allows for a very fast operation. It is also a feature of other British bolt action designs like the Lee Enfields. The MK 3 and MK 4s are very fast and smooth. British troops famously practiced rapid long range volley fire using their rifles and a technique of working the bolt and depressing the trigger with their bottom two fingers of the firing hand as soon as the bolt closed. A company of British troops firing in this manner could wreak a larger unit a long range and was an effective way to compensate for lack of machine gun support.
The M1917 has recently started to get the respect it deserves, it still does not have the admiration or mythical status of the M1903.
Luckily most of the things that make the M1903 less than idea for comabat were addressed in later models. AS I mentioned the M1903A3 corrected the rear sight issues with a peep sight that was simple to use and more suited for ranges most firefights really occur. It wasn’t made with the same aesthetic care and old world craftsmanship as the M1903 but it worked is really the better gun if you had to take one to war.
The M1903 served several roles in its career and is much respected. In some of those roles it was everything you could ask and more In others not so much. As a sniper rifle its target rifle accuracy , handling and trim lines really made it shine.
It served as a sniper rifle into WW2, Korea and even some in Vietnam. The Army opted for using a 4x weaver with the M1903A4 while the USMC adopted and used the Unertl 8x optic. A deadly combination that produced many Japanese widows. As seen below a team of USMC sniper on Okinawa.
Today the Springfield still enjoys a status as a real classic. A real icon of US military Arms. It’s accuracy being the stuff of legend and its full powered 30 caliber round will always be unquestioned in it’s ability. But, its original classic M1903 incarnation never saw nearly the amount of combat as many believe and it was certainly not the best bolt action of the war. It wasn’t even the best Mauser action combat rifle of the war.
Just like the M14, the original issued M1903 was. not much for fighting.
A few years ago, I ran across this image . It is a display of the weapons and gear the two bank robbers from the North Hollywood shoot out used. It is interesting to think back on how things changed because of this.
I remember a lot of talk after it about how the CA cop’s 9mm and 38 spl handguns and 12 ga shotguns, weren’t effective against the robber’s boy armor. A fact that makes me wonder why, decades later the 9mm has become the miracle baby of LEO once again.
Approximately 650 rounds were fired by police at the two robbers. No doubt mostly from their service handguns. Once officers armed with rifles showed up , the fire fight was over one way or another.
That estimated 650 rounds though. That is something to think about. While the robbers were heavily armored, their heads were not. I have over the years wondered about how none of the officers on scene made a head shot. Did they not have the skill? Or was it lack of confidence in their ability ? Maybe they assumed they had some kind of armor on their heads? You can see they made many center mass hits. Of course having two guys hosing you down with .30cal is not the best time to try to take a head shot.
But the fact is, you may some day very well need to take a head shot. Either because it is the only target you got or because it is the only thing vulnerable.
It is pretty clear the police officers on scene were rattled and demoralized by being vastly undergunned.
“ An officer was heard on the LAPD police frequency approximately 10-15 minutes into the shootout, warning other officers that they should “not stop [the getaway vehicle], they’ve got automatic weapons, there’s nothing we have that can stop them.”
You can listen to the audio from the fire fight here.
The firefight ended the only way it could. Both of the dirt bags Tango Uniform. One suck started his M92 and the other one taken down by leg shots and bleeding out before an EMT could get to him. Too bad for him. Now a days I am sure the state of CA would lock up the officers for not doing more to save the animal’s life.
After this shoot out we read about how things changed in the police departments across the country. This was one of the factors that led to the police starting to look more and more and act more and more like the military. And with that the more tax payer money spent on paying for it all. Then we see the recent FL school attack were the police were close to useless. I see police who can barely qualify with their handguns.
Again, you have to be ready to take care of yourself in an event like this. You have to have the skill to make a fight ending shot. Or you need to be able to realize that even with great skill. you may not do any good in an event like this. If a customer was in that bank after the robbers went outside and started up the TET offensive would it had been a good idea to come out behind them and try to take a shot, even a perfect shot, once the police were there and not knowing who was who? Yes if you wanted to avoid ever having to worry about anything ever again.
There are a lot of things that can be learned from the North Hollywood Shootout. Not just for the police but for military and the rest of us lowly peons who simply do not rely on the state for our safety.
You can read a mountain of info on this famous, world changing event. I am not going to try my hand at any kind of in depth reporting on the event but you can read more here at this link.
https://projects.dailynews.com/north-hollywood-shootout/
I posted this picture a few years ago and like some of our older posts, the image got lost int he change over to the new improved website. I ran across it again today while looking for another picture on my laptop.
I like this image a lot. There was a time this stuff was pretty well be state of the art. I think any outdoors man would have been proud of this spread. Kinda sad that those days are gone. Not that I would want to give up our modern guns, but the simplicity of going out hunting in jeans and flannel. Not a 300 dollar charcoal lined scent proof gortex jacket to set in a 40 foot high tree stand over a feeder full of corn. When I was a pre-teen, some of this stuff was still pretty common in the part of the country I live. Though it’s days were numbered. So, since we all know I am a fan of this era of shooting and all its accessories and related, I thought I would share the picture here again.
