Tag Archives: Glock

Toggle-Locked Orphan: the Benelli B76

Since the passing of Hognose we have been sharing some of his best work  here at least weekly.  Since I have to spend most of the weekends  taking pictures and shooting all the guns I review  or research on the other articles I usually don’t out anything up Saturdays and Sundays.  With those two days of no new articles I have decided to make the weekend the slot for our tribute to Kevin and his work.

 

Toggle-Locked Orphan: the Benelli B76

by Kevin O’Brien

If you have a well-rounded firearms education, the name Benelli needs no introduction. Now part of the Beretta family, the marque has been known for its semi-auto shotguns since its founding in 1967. But Benelli made an attempt, in the 70s and 80s, to make a NATO service pistol. It’s interesting for its unusual toggle-lock mechanism (one we missed when we covered toggle-locking), its fine Italian styling, and its relative rarity: internet forum participants, at least, think only about 10,000 were made. (We do some analysis on this claim below, and posit a lower number).

benelli b76 pistol

There were other Italian semi-autos at about the same time, like the Bernardelli P-018, competing in part for European police contracts, as many Continental police departments replaced 7.65mm service pistols during the 1970s and 80s rise of European communist terrorist groups like the Red Brigades and Baader-Meinhof Gang. But the Benelli was a unique blend of design and functionality. Arriving too late into a market saturated with double-stack double-action pistols, it might have been a killer competitor for the P1/P.38 or the Beretta M1951 twenty years earlier, but by the end of the eighties, the market was heavily oriented towards double-stack, double-action, and often, ambidextrous-control service pistols. Even European police services who had thought 8 rounds of 9mm a real fistful of firepower had moved on — and so did Benelli, retreating to a concentration on its market-leading shotguns.

Mechanics of the B76

The toggle-lock is not truly a lock in the sense of a Maxim or Luger lock, but more of a hesitation lock or delayed blowback. Other weapons have used a lever in delayed blowback, like the Kiraly submachine guns and the French FAMAS Clarión, but the Benelli one is unique. It’s described in US patent No. 3,893,369. The toggle lock or lever is #5 in the illustration below, from the patent.

US3893369-1Benelli B76

Benelli often cited the fixed barrel of its design as a contributor to superior accuracy in comparison to the generic Browning-type action.

Aesthetics & Ergonomics

The styling of the B76 is a little like its Italian contemporary, the Lamborghini Countach: angular, striking, and polarizing. You love it or hate it, or like Catullus, both at once: Idi et amo. It came in a colorful printed box, resembling consumer products of the era…

BenelliB77Pistol in box

…or in a more traditional wooden case.

OLYMPUS DIGITAL CAMERA

The somewhat blocky slide needs to be protected by a holster with a full nose cap, if you intend to carry the B76. It’s a large pistol and it would be prone to print if you did, much like any other service pistol like the M9, the Glock 17, or various SIGs. Where the pistol comes into its own is when you handle and shoot it. The safety falls right to hand, like that of a 1911, although as a DA/SA gun it’s perfectly safe to carry hammer down on a loaded chamber. The grip angle is much like the P.08 Luger, making for a very natural pistol pointing experience. The pistol’s steel construction and roughly 1kg (2.2 lb) weight makes it comfortable and controllable to shoot. The heavily-contoured grip on the target models makes it even more so.

The guns are known for reliability and accuracy, and their small following is very enthusiastic, reminding us of the fans of the old Swiss SIG P210 pistol: the sort of machinery snobs whose garage is more accustomed to housing premium European nameplates than generic American or Japanese iron, and who not only buy premium instead of Lowe’s tools, but who can take you through their toolboxes explaining why the premium stuff is better.

Production and Variations

The Benelli company was relatively new when it designed the B76. The US Patent application for its locking mechanism dates to 1973, and the planned start of production was 1976 (that may have slipped).

There were several variants of the B76, most of them sold only in non-US markets. The B76 was the name ship of the class, if you will, but there were several variants. The B77 was a scaled-down model in .7.65 x 17SR (7.65 Browning/.32 ACP); it was a completely different gun. The B80 was a 7.65 x 22 (7.65 Parabellum/.30 Luger) variant, largely for the Italian market; only the barrel and magazine differed from the B76. The B82 was a variant in the short-lived European police caliber, 9 x 18 Ultra (sometimes reported, mistakenly, as 9×18 Makarov). In addition, there were several target pistol variants, including the B76 “Sport” with target sights, grip, longer barrel, and weights, and a similar target pistol in, of all things, .32 S&W Long called the MP3S. We’ve covered some of these exotic Benellis before, in the mistaken belief that we had brought this post live, which we hadn’t. (D’oh!)

The one modification that might have brought Benelli sales to police departments or military forces was never done, and that is to develop a double-stack magazine. A “mere” 8 rounds of 9mm was already insufficient in 1976, when many NATO armies already issued the 13-round Browning Hi-Power as their baseline auto pistol, and the novel Glock 17 coming on strong.

Benelli dropped the pistols from its catalog in 1990. The company still produces its signature shotguns and a line of high-end target pistols, and even some rifles based on the shotgun design, but its foray into the pistol market has left Benelli with bad memories, red ink and a few curiosities in the company museum. But the curious pistol buyer looking for a firearm with a difference will find here a remarkable and character-rich handgun. If you’re the sort of man who can rock an Armani suit or avoid looking ridiculous in a Countach, this might be a good companion piece.

We’ve mentioned the internet claims of production of 10,000. The highest serial number we found on the net (5462) was well below that, but we certainly don’t have a statistical grasp on production yet. With 7 known serial numbers we can make a rough calculation that there’s a 9 in 10 probability the total production is under 6400, and a 99% probability it’s under 8500. That’s assuming our rusty MBA-fu still retains its potency.

Market

No B76s are on GunBroker at this writing, and only very few — single digit quantities — have moved since 2012. The guns offered were all in very good to new-in-box condition, and they cleared the market at prices from $585 to $650. One went unsold at $565 against a reserve of $600, hinting that, despite these guns’ character and quality, there’s just not much of a market for single-stack full-size DA/SA autopistols.

For More Information

We’re seeking a better copy, but for the moment, heres a .pdf of the manual. Unfortunately, it takes greater pains to describe the mundane DA/SA trigger system than the rare, patented breech lock!

benelli_b76.pdf

A Taxonomy of Safeties

In addition to the other two posts so far today, I am sharing another one of Hognose’s posts from Weaponsman.com.  This is a repost in our ongoing commitment to honoring  our dead friend Kevin and his work.

A Taxonomy of Safeties

by   Kevin O’Bien “Hognose”

There are several kinds of safeties that are used on service weapons to ensure that only the proper and deserving people are shot. They generally interface in some way with the firing mechanism of the firearm. They may act on the trigger, the hammer or striker, or the sear, or (in some fiendishly clever arrangements) more than one of the above. It is generally thought better to positively lock the striker or firing pin than merely to lock the sear or trigger. If the mechanism fails due to parts breakage, it is easier to design a fail-safe mechanism if the striker or firing pin is immobilized.

Safeties Classified by Operator Volition

Safeties can be classified based on the degree of volition required to use them. An applied safety must be consciously put on, in most cases. An automatic safety is unconsciously applied as the pistol is taken up. Examples of automatic safeties include:

  1. the Glock Safe Action trigger and its many copies and derivatives;
  2. the grip safeties characteristic of many Browning designs, such as the M1911 .45 and the FN M1910 pocket pistol;
  3. similar grip safeties on open-bolt submachine guns such as the Madsen and the Uzi. (An open-bolt SMG poses peculiar safety problems);
  4. transfer-bars and other means to ensure a weapon can’t fire unless the trigger is pulled;
  5. mechanisms that hold a firing pin back until a weapon with a locking breech is fully in battery (the disconnector often does double-duty as this part);
  6. Firing-pin immobilizers as in the Colt Series 80 and newer M1911s (an earlier firing pin safety, the Swartz Safety, was used in commercial Colt 1911s from circa 1937 to 1940, and is used by Kimber today);
  7. A heavy, smooth trigger pull such as that on a traditional Double Action revolver or a DA/SA autopistol can prevent unintentional discharges. However, some heavy triggers (like the Glock NY2) have a bad enough effect on accuracy as to threaten bystanders with unintentional shooting.
  8. Magazine safeties, an obsolete European concept;
  9. Half-cock notches (in British/European English usage, these may be called half-cock “bents.”)

Contrasting with these automatic safeties, that do their work without conscious application by the operator, there are Applied or volitional safeties. Applied Safeties are usually classified by what part of the firing mechanism they work on, and so examples of Applied safeties break down into:

  1. Safeties that lock the trigger. The simplest of these are the crude trigger-blocking safeties on an SKS or Tokarev SVT. More complex trigger-locking safeties are found in the AR series of rifles and the FN-FAL;
  2. Safeties that lock the firing mechanism (which may be further divided into those that lock the firing pin, like the Walther P.38 or Beretta M92, and those that lock the hammer, like the US M1 Rifle, or
  3. The bolt holding notch in many 2nd-generation submachine guns. (These are reminiscent in a way of the safety of the Mosin-Nagant rifle, which requires the cocking piece to be rotated and caught in a notch). The case can be made that this is a firing mechanism lock, because the bolt with its fixed firing pin is the firing mechanism.
  4. Safeties that lock the sear. Examples include the .45 M1911, its younger brother the BHP, many other auto pistols, and most general purpose machine guns. Some require the weapon to be cocked to lock the sear, others allow locking the bolt forward (the RPD LMG and the Sterling SMG are examples of this).
  5. Safeties that disconnect the trigger from the sear. This is found in the Bren gun and many other Czech designs, historically. The ZB 26 and its derivatives were quite cunning: in one position, the selector brings the trip lever to engage the semi notch, which is in the upper side of a window in the sear. In the other position, it engages the auto notch in the lower side. In the intermediate, “safe,” position, the  trip lever clears both notches and the weapon does not fire.

Note that automatic safeties, too, can be broken down as working on the trigger, the firing mechanism, and the sear, also. So safeties can also be Classified by Operation.

Safeties Classified by Operation

It is possible to classify safeties in the first place by their means of action:

  1. Trigger safeties
  2. Firing-mechanism (striker, hammer, firing pin) safeties
  3. Sear safeties
  4. Disconnecting safeties.

This is true, obviously, for both automatic and volitional safeties, and classifying them this way puts their mode of action forward as more important than their mode of engagement, which (applied/volitional or automatic) becomes a secondary trait.

One More Trait: Must the Firearm be Cocked?

It is only possible to engage many safeties when the weapon is cocked or ready to fire (presuming a chambered round). Familiar examples include the AR series rifles and the 1911 pistol and other Browning hammer designs. Other safeties engage regardless of the energy state of the striker or hammer, for example the AK, the Remington Model 8 (a Browning-designed trigger mechanism that was deeply influential on 20th and 21st Century firearms designers, including Garand, Kalashnikov and Stoner), and the RPD light machine gun.

Combination Safeties

While a weapon may have multiple safeties that do different things (or multiple modes that engage the same safety, as in the safety lever and grip safety of early Lugers), it’s possible for a single cunningly-designed safety to disable multiple points of the firing chain at once. For instance, the Lee-Enfield safety is a model of versatility: it locks the striker, locks the bolt closed (preventing the chambering of a round), and disconnects the striker from the sear. The M1911 or Browning High-Power safety locks the slide closed as well as locks

It’s also possible for a volitional safety to be combined with other functions. The most common example of this is the combined safety/selector switch of most modern assault rifles, like the M16 or AK-47.

To Sum Up

There are a great but finite number of ways to design safety features on modern firearms. Careful study of prior art allows today’s designer truly to stand on the shoulders of the giants in the field. John Browning left no memoir or technical book, nor did John Garand, John D. Pedersen, Gene Stoner; and the many memoirs of Mikhail Kalashnikov are disappointing to the technical reader. But each of these geniuses spoke to us in the art of his designs, and they are still available for us to study and to try to read what their art is trying to tell us.

We have not, in this limited post, attempted to discuss “best practices” or the pros and cons of any individual safety design. Very often, the designer will be limited by the customer’s instructions or specifications. (For example, the grip safety of the 1911, which 1970s and 80s custom smiths often pinned in engagement as a potential point of combat failure, was requested of John M. Browning by the US Cavalry. The other military branches didn’t feel such a need, but the horse soldiers did, and Browning first added it on his .38 caliber 1902 Military pursuant to a similar request). Thus, even as a designer, your safety design decisions may not be your own.

Notes and Sources

  • This post has been modified since it was first posted, to expand it.
  • This post will be added to The Best of WeaponsMan Gun Tech.

This post owes a great deal to the following work:

Allsop, DF, and Toomey, MA. Small Arms: General Design. London: Brassey’s, 1999.

Chapter 13 is an extensive review of trigger mechanisms, including safeties, and while their classification of safeties is different from ours, their explanations are clear and concise.

Thanks to the commenters who not only recommend this long out-of-print book, but also sent us a link to a bookstore that had it (it’s a copy withdrawn from a military library, as it turns out). This out-of-print work is less technical and deep, but considerably more modern, than Balleisen; its examples are primarily British.

Kevin was a former Special Forces weapons man (MOS 18B, before the 18 series, 11B with Skill Qualification Indicator of S), and you can expect any guest columnists to be similarly qualified. He passed away early last year.

Why we are not currently taking guest posts from strangers.

As you know, we here at LooseRounds.com like to stay pretty informal. We previously encouraged people to send us guest posts, but almost every week now we get sent some absolute garbage.

One example, we had someone submit an article, “Glock 42 V.s Desert Eagle: Which Is Best Suited For Military“. This wasn’t even a parody.  The intro picture was of a blank firing Beretta clone.  Phrases like, “Stops power” and “Handguns continuous inventions fail to include distinctive features.” were used much like how we butcher the English language.

I contacted the writer and told them that if they had written that sober, they should go see a doctor in case they had suffered a stroke.  Hell, if we wanted something written that poorly, I’d write it myself.

Glock E-Trainer

This my own opinion on the item sent to me for review.

 

In the old days it was common to read of instructors suggesting dry firing at least 10 times for each shot fired.  Now we don’t see recommendations like that.  Part of it is that ammo and ranges are readily available, and dry firing isn’t the sort of sexy action that sells well.

Then comes the issue of damage.  You shouldn’t dry fire some guns.  Most all .22 should not be dry fired due to that it WILL damage the chamber and firing pins.  Other guns may break firing pins or breach faces.  Try doing an internet search for “Glock dry fire damage” to see some broken Glock slides.  Some firearms just should not be dry fired, others can be with a dummy round in the chamber.  Yet there are many that could you dry fire all day every day with out any issue.

Despite the previous issue, dry firing is still the best way to practice recoil control as you are removed from the distracting noise, blast, and cost of live fire.  Not to mention the annoyances of other shoots.  You can dry fire in the comfort of your own home.

So when you are dry firing, unless you have a double action firearm, you have to reset the action between each trigger pull.  This cycling the action can be used as a way to practice your reload or malfunction clearing movements.  This is good training, but a distraction from the trigger pull.

This is where a dry fire trainer is useful, it lets you focus only on the trigger pull and repeat the trigger pull with out any distractions.  I was sent a Glock E-Trainer dry fire tool to try out.  You can get one from glocketrainer.com.  Installation is simple, unload the pistol, lock the slide to the rear, then slide the trainer in place.  With it installed, you can dry fire to your heart’s content with out having to rack the slide over and over.  When you are done, lock the slide to the rear, and slide the trainer out.

The big advantage of this trainer is that you can do countless repeated trigger pulls with out having to rack the slide or risk any damage to your firearm.   This additionally allows for practicing trigger follow through so very much easier than having to hold the trigger back when racking the slide.

The disadvantage with the E-Trainer is that you loose the trigger break of the normal trigger pull.  Unlike when you have a “dead trigger”, this has the full trigger pull, just no trigger break.  I don’t find this an issue, but I imagine that that could be a deal breaker for some.  Because of this you can not practice riding the trigger reset (“rolling the link” or what ever you want to call it).

Out of curiosity, I pulled out my trigger weight gauge (of questionable quality) and did some comparisons.  First, dry firing the Glock 19 gave a result between 4.5 and 4.75 pounds.  (This was a surprise to me as this G19 has a NY1 spring and a – connector which would be expected to give about a 5.5-6.5 pound trigger pull).  I tried the index card trick for dry firing and that gave a trigger pull of slightly over 2.5 pounds on my scale.  The E-Trainer also gave a result of a little over 2.5 pounds.  This seems confusing to me because it doesn’t feel like it.  To my finger, the trigger pull felt just as heavy as a regular dry firing.

EDIT:  Testing was initially done with the trigger pull gauge at the tip of the trigger, dry firing with the gauge at the center of the trigger gave a ~6 pound trigger pull normally and ~4-4.5 pound trigger pull with the trainer.

There are three models of this trainer and between them they cover the majority of the models of the Glock pistols the exception of the G36 and models with crescent serration.  As of the time of this review being published, the E-Trainer is $29.44 shipped.

I would not say this item is a necessity, but it certainly is a major convenience for dry fire practice.  After it was easily installed on a Glock 19, I did a hundred trigger pulls right handed only and another hundred with the left hand.  It did not take long to get some good practice of only the trigger pull motion.

I wouldn’t recommend this initially for the novice.  I would suggest doing fewer repetitions focusing on trying to get that perfect form of the perfect trigger pull.  Don’t practice mistakes.  Once you have that perfect trigger pull, then something like this trainer become valuable as it helps you get the repetitions to make your perfect trigger pull muscle memory for when you don’t have to time to consciously focus on the trigger.  This isn’t something you have to have, but it is rather nice to have.

The novice practices until they can do it right.

The expert practices until they can’t do it wrong.

 

As I have tried to edit and finalize the wording for this review, I have been walking around my place, balancing a coin on the front sight of a G19, dry firing hundreds of times with the E-trainer. I really like this thing.

Smith & Wesson M&P9, Version 1, What to Look For

One of the best and a very reliable firearm you can decide to buy is a new, police trade-in or used Smith & Wesson M&P9, if you know what to look for. When looking at one of these used M&P9’s there are important things you need to look for.  In this short article, I will breakdown some of the key things to look for and/or avoid. A gun store may not let you field strip the gun to insure you are getting what you want, so if they don’t, pass on it. This will cover only M&P9s in a certain date range, before the M2.0 versions. Nothing in this article is applicable to the Shield models.

Advantages:

First let’s talk about the advantages of buying an M&P9 in today’s market. When you understand what to look for in a new or used M&P9, you know if you are buying the most updated version. Since Smith & Wesson has made rolling updates to their M&Ps over the years, it is hard to know what years all of these updates were implemented. Rest assured, if you buy an M&P9 that was produced after 2015, you are more than likely good to go.

S&W M&P9

Since the M2.0 versions has been released the previous versions of the M&P9s have significantly dropped in price. This makes picking up an older used or new stock M&P9 a great purchase for someone on a budget, or wanting to add to their collection. The M&P9 handguns are a long serving and very reliable design. On average you can get the trade-in /used M&Ps in the Mid to High-300 dollar range. I recently came across a new in box, M&P9 for 349.00 dollars. That is such a screaming deal I could not pass it up. When checking the production date on the new M&P9, it was June of 2017.

Barrel 

Older M&P9s had a twist rate of 1:18.75 with the barrels. When checking the used or new M&P9, look for two things.

First; the barrel should have a visible bull/flair at the end. My understanding is this was a fix to address the early unlocking of the barrel and slide in the M&P. There are some 1:18.75 barrels with and without the bull/flair.

Bull/Flair Barrel

Second; on the underside of the barrel, just in front of the locking lug, there should be a small dot. There may sometimes be two dots. Either way this indicates the barrel is the upgraded 1:10 twist rate.  My understanding is all 1:10 barrels in the M&P9 will have the bull/flair at the end. These changes happened sometime between 2012 and 2015, to address accuracy issues.

Dot mark at locking lug

Slide Stop

In approximately Mid 2013, Smith & Wesson upgraded the ambidextrous Slide Stop on the M&Ps. This was to address issues with the auto forwarding of the slide, when inserting a new magazine.  While the upgrade may have addressed the issue in some M&Ps, it did not in my new example.

Ambi Slide Lock

S&W beefed up the build of the slide stop. You will notice a distinct square build-up on top of the slide stop lever.

Ambi Slide Lock

Trigger Reset

There have been several upgrades to the M&P trigger components over the years.  I do not know what all these individual component upgrades are, nor do I have older M&Ps to compare them to. Upgrades have been made over the years to the sear, trigger bar and various springs, to address the lack of audible trigger reset.  The particular M&P9 I purchased has a clear, audible and tactile, reset.  I have a new M&P9 M2.0 Compact and the trigger reset on the Older M&P9 is better, but the trigger break is lighter & smoother on the M2.0.  Spend a little time pulling the trigger and checking the reset.

M&P Trigger
Trigger Pull

Trigger Note:

There is no way around it, the stock M&P trigger shoe/geometry sucks, compared to all other striker fired firearms. There is a huge, simple, inexpensive fix to the trigger. I would highly recommend checking out the Apex AEK Trigger. This replaces the Sear Spring (with a Heavy Duty spring) and Trigger Shoe.  The polymer version is 37.95 and the aluminum version is about 73.00 dollars.  This gives you the flatter Glock type trigger face and is a vast improvement on the S&W curved trigger face.

Apex AEK Polymer Trigger.

Sights

Sights may play a factor in pricing when you have found a good deal.  All M&Ps come with steel sights, which is a good thing. The M&P9 I purchased came with standard three dot white sights.  Some may come with S&W night sights, and if they do at the 349.00 dollar price, that is a major plus.

Rear Sight
Front Sight

Conclusion:

Look for all of the updates in the M&P you are looking at. Remember, if you are buying an M&P M2.0 version, all of the updates are already in those firearms and more, (but that is a separate article).

I purchased a new S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact about six (6) months ago and I love it. I have never been a huge M&P fan. I have liked the Shields and I really like my M2.0 Compact. I believe the M2.0 Compact is the best S&W M&P pistol ever made and it is giving several of my other 15 round capacity firearms a serious run for the money. Having said all that, for the money and reliability, an older M&P9 or even a .40 would be an excellent firearm, at these current low prices.

M&P9

You should not hesitate to purchase an M&P9 at under 350.00 dollars. I have reviewed several budget defensive firearms, like the Sig SP2022, used/trade in Glock’s and the Canik TP9SF. I would choose the M&P9 over all of them at the current market prices. If you remember to look for the key things talked about here, you will be walking away with  the latest upgrades, an extremely reliable firearm, that will be very dependable and reliable for years to come.

Duncan

A Subject Matter Expert Checks In

I don’t think I have to say anything about the now standard  mouth foaming idiocy  that comes from these tragedies.  But I   saw this and thought it too good not to share.

 

“An AR-15 is a semi automatic rifle. It shoots 13.4 bullets per second, 800 rounds per minute. It was created for the purpose of hitting multiple targets in a short amount of time, making it ideal for mass murder. It’s been used in the military to clear out areas in the Middle East for the reason above. Compare it to, say, a Glock 19 (a popular handgun, since you’re confused about it). This gun is small and holds a chamber big enough for 10 rounds of ammo. It is not an automatic or semi-automatic weapon, meaning it takes more time in between shots to be able to shoot again. The Glock 19 shoots less than a single bullet per second. It is used in homicides and burglaries, crimes with singular victims. it is not ideal for mass murder because of its inability to target multiple people at once. But you know what can? A fucking semi-automatic weapon”

 

Street Robberies And You

Today’s  post is all copy/paste from a write up a fellow did on Arfcom some years ago.  It began a thread with a lot of discussion.  It is one of the best threads on AR15.com  in the years I have spent  as a member of the website.     Several times over the years I have emailed and IM’ed the author  for purposes of reposting here and have never gotten a response either way.   With that in mind I am sure he would rather as many people as possible  read this and I will post a link to the thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Street-robberies-and-you-The-Basics/5-1285487/#bottom

 

By BurnedoutLEO

Lately in GD we have had two different board members find themselves looking down the barrel of a gun along with the GF of another ARFCOMMER in street robberies. Also Blitz308 got shot all to pieces last year.

While many say it is better to be lucky than good, no one is lucky every time. In this post I am going to attempt to provide some insight into street encounters. Other may have different viewpoints. I am not here to argue. I will say some of the comments I have seen posted in the threads about this sort of matter make me realize that while some ARFCOMMERS are clearly street veterans others are not. This is really for those who are not.

Background

First, my info. I worked in the street of one of America’s most violent, dangerous cities for 15 years. I usually worked in the worst part of that city. I spent 15 years in patrol. I liked patrol. It was wild. Most of the time I worked in areas covered in ghetto. By that I mean large housing projects combined with run down slum housing. I have worked all shifts. Later I became an investigator including a robbery investigator. I have spent countless hours in interrogation rooms talking to hold up men. I know them. I am still an investigator but have quit playing the Robbery game because my family was starting to forget what I looked like.

The Enemy

Some may object to me calling hold up men “the enemy”. You can call them whatever you like. I can assure you however they are as deadly an enemy as you will find anywhere but the battlefield. Even many soldiers probably lack the viciousness and utter disregard for life most hold up men possess.

No one wakes up in the morning one day and decides to become an armed robber. It is a gradual process that requires some experience and desensitizing. Before a man will pick up a gun and threaten to kill people who have done him no harm in order to get their usually meager possessions he has to get comfortable with some things.

He has to get used to seeing others as objects for him to exploit. He has to accept he may be killed while robbing. He has to accept the felony conviction for Robbery will haunt him all his life. He has to accept he may need to kill a completely innocent person to get away with his crime.

This is a process that starts with stealing candy at the corner store as a child. It progresses through bigger property crimes that may also involve violence. But one day G gets tired of selling his stolen property for nothing and decides it would be better to steal cash. Cut out all that tiresome sales stuff.

Keep in mind many petty thieves, auto burglars, residential and commercial burglars, paper thieves, and hustlers will get to that point and decide not to become armed robbers. Most will. It is a special group of outliers who decide threatening to kill people for a few dollars is the way to go.

Once a man starts armed robbing he has crossed a line most won’t. Don’t forget that when you are looking these bastards in the eye. Their decision to kill you is already made. Your life means nothing to him. Only his does. His sole motivation for not killing you is he doesn’t want a murder case. He has already accepted he may pick one up though.

We hunt hold up men around the clock once they are identified. We send teams of fire breathing fence jumper/door kickers to find them. We will bring their mother to the office and convince her she is going to jail if we don’t have Junior in our office in an hour. We have her call her son crying hysterically for him to turn himself in before she is arrested and held without bond as a material witness and her home seized for harboring him. Most of the time they won’t. Fuck their own momma.

We will hit all Juniors friends and family’s houses. We make it so no one will harbor him. He is so hot no one will let him in their house or even talk on the phone with him. We put money on him so he knows he is right to be betrayed and set up. We do this because of one thing.

That thing is they WILL kill someone if they keep robbing. That is why the city is willing to pay all the overtime. They don’t want the murders. Think about that when you see Junior coming. The more robberies he does the closer he is to killing someone. Maybe you.

The guys who hit you on the street are gang members. They are Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords, Crips, Sureonos, many others. They do not see themselves as part of society. The street is all they know. They don’t expect to live long or stay out of prison. They take a delight in your fear and suffering. They are warped individuals for the most part. They can be extremely dangerous.

One time we were locking up a hold up man and having a conversation about how they target their victims. I was saying they pick easy ones, another guy was saying they preferred easy ones but would take anybody.

I pointed out a uniform Officer there was an NFL size guy to that hold up man. Frankly the dude was a monster. I asked hold up man if he would rob him. He said “If I needed the money”.

You

Chances are good you are a law abiding person except for maybe a little light weed smoking and maybe driving a little drunk every once in a while. Most of your life you have been taught to be nice and don’t point guns at people. You are the exact opposite of your enemy who was taught just the opposite. Remember a lot of street life is like prison life. Who’s the man is everything. Violence is the currency of the street.

You do not possess total disregard for the lives of others and do not want to kill anyone. You are concerned about the ramifications of shooting someone. Your family, your possessions and finances on the line. Your enemy has none of these concerns.

The laws that keep you from carrying your gun in bars or where ever mean nothing to your enemy. Your reluctance to shoot someone works to is advantage. His greater experience in street violence and the element of surprise is on his side.

Everyone should call their local FBI office and get a copy of Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted. When it first came out it was ground breaking because it demonstrated to academics and other elites what street police knew all along. What did it show in interviews with cop killers? Nice guys finish dead. That’s right. Most of those offenders commented that the Officer they killed set himself up to be killed because of reluctance to use force early in the encounter.

You can probably find it on line now. A lot of the victim Officers were a lot like a lot of other people, normal people. They were the opposite of their enemy.

Am I advocating becoming the enemy? No. I am saying the person who is robbing you has certain traits, attitudes, and background. That is all.

Dynamics of Encounters

Hold up men target victims on the street in an impulsive, opportunistic manner. They see someone and make a quick judgment call on whether to rob them. The time between when you are targeted and they are on you isn’t long. Therefore, situational awareness is everything.

If you see G coming you are in good shape. If you don’t you will be the victim who says “He came out of nowhere”. No he didn’t. There are many tricks to watching out but simply watching your back is the main thing. Watch your back. If you do it enough it becomes second nature and you won’t even realize you are doing it.

Watching out is great but unfortunately many self defense courses stop there. You have parked you car in a well lit area, are aware of your surroundings, and looky here, here comes three guys across the parking lot and they start to kind of fan out.

When you lock eyes with G the very first thing you need to do it indicate you have a weapon. It doesn’t matter if you do or not. If you are a woman put your gun hand in your purse and keep it there. If you are a man fan your shirt or coat tail with your gun hand. Make it clear to dude you are mentally prepared to draw and making sure your gun is clear. This will many times result in an about face by dude. It is the single best robbery avoidance tactic IMHO.

Not long ago I was walking down the sidewalk in my town to go get my car. I was holding a folding chair in my gun hand. A car slow rolled past me with 4 heads in it. The guys in the back seat turned around as they went by looking at me. They went a little farther and U turned in the street.

Here they come back. As they started to slow down I looked at them with as contemptuous a look as I could muster and switched the chair to my left hand and flicked my shirt tail with my right hand. They just drove on mad dogging me.

In another case I was at a Christmas party and walked a girl to her car about 3 am. As we said our good-byes two guys were walking across the parking lot. One went behind a dumpster. I though he was peeing. He came out from behind the dumpster with a bottle.

As they got closer I stepped clear of that girl and unzipped my jacket at those two guys. When I did the guy threw down the bottle and they walked by cussing at me. If someone challenges you after you indicate you are armed say “I don’t have a gun”. Then they will know you do.

Here is an opposite story. A girl my brother knows was walking her dog when a guy approached her. She was polite. Mistake. He talked to her about the dog and said she had pretty hair and reached out and touched her hair. She did not slap his hand down or aggressively object. Mistake. He asked her if her dog bit and she said “No”. At that time he slapped the shit out of her, drug her into a wooded area, and raped her.

The answer in the street is always “No”. Can I ask you something? No. Do you have a cigarette? No. Can you tell me what time it is? No. The answer is always “No”. Don’t be nice. Stop the encounter as soon as it starts.

When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.

Supposed two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!

I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream “That’s close enough motherfuckers!” What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.

Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.

Do not hesitate to draw. If you are somewhere you are supposed to be and someone appears who is not supposed to be there like a closed business show him the end of your gun. Could it be Mother Teresa looking for her lost cat behind your closed business? No it is some motherfucker up to no good. He won’t call the police to report he was prowling a location when a guy ran him off.

When to shoot

The time to shoot is immediately upon seeing his weapon. You are not a police man who has to try to arrest the guy. No need to scream at him. No exposure while you yell for him to drop the gun.

In deer hunting the experienced hunter takes the first good shot. May not be the perfect shot but it never is. Novices pass up a doable shot waiting for a better shot and then the deer is gone. Take the first good shot you are offered. Hopefully your alertness and hostile cues will prevent you ever having to fire. But once you see his weapon, shoot.

If a guy is coming at you with a gun in his hand shoot him. Shoot him right then. If you don’t shoot first you may not shoot at all. I have known more than one person who was shot and received life changing injuries and also shot their attacker. Their only regret was not shooting sooner. Like Bill Jordan said “Nothing disturbs your enemy’s aim like a slug delivered to the belt buckle area”.

Guns and weapons

The handgun is the best weapon you can carry easily. I understand it is not always possible to have one due to laws, restrictions, whatever. I am not telling anyone to disregard laws about carrying weapons. Each person has to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. I will say there is no substitute for a pistol when you need one.

Also if you can not be trusted with a pistol after a few drinks you can’t be trusted with a pistol period. Booze is liquid bad judgment no doubt but it shouldn’t make you into a damn moron. If you are a moron sober I don’t know what to tell you.

Types of guns and ammo are always debated and probably always will be. I have seen people shot with all common calibers. My conclusion is if you hit someone between the collar bone and the tip of their ribs three times with anything, they are handled. Bigger is better but something is better than nothing. Get your front sight on his shirt and stay on him as long as he is standing with whatever gun you have.

Just have a gun with sure fire ammo. Draw early and fire immediately upon seeing his weapon. That course of action is about all you can do to up your odds of ending things favorably. Guns like the Ruger LC9, SIG 239, Glock 26/27 are examples of guns small enough to carry but with enough power and capacity to be useful. Do not be afraid to use a French Lebelle if that is the only gun you have. A gun is a gun. I like a Glock 19.

Training

We all want the best training. It can be expensive if you are having to pay for it and it can be hard to find the time to do it. There is a whole lot of BS out there. What can you do? First, pistol handling is not rocket surgery. If you will learn the basics and practice on your own you can be fine. Smooth draw, quick pairs, reload. If you know those things well you can be OK.

I know a young man who shot down two hold up men in 2010 at very close range while he and his GF were walking home from the store. He in Wyatt Earp like fashion ignored the fire coming from the gunman and killed him and wounded his accomplice. He nor his GF were injured. He like many was willing to give them the money until he picked up on nonverbal cues that because of his GF they were not quite satisfied with the money. He had a Glock 27.

He had only the most basic of training in gun handling but did do some draws and some dry fire a couple times a week and live fired maybe once a month. That basic skill combined with knowing what to do was enough. He shot at the first possible moment despite having let the guys get the drop on them. When the gunman turned his head because a car drove by that was the opening. A split second is a long time sometimes.

Work on some one hand shooting at close range. That is a skill not as popular as it once was and you want to use two hands when you can. Often you can find yourself doing something with your off hand though so be able to shoot with one hand out to 5 yards or so.

After

If it comes to pass you are forced to shoot someone do not feel bad. When the police come just tell them a guy threatened you with deadly force and you were forced to fire. I know there are bad police out there in some parts of the country who don’t support self defense. I can’t help you with that.

Do not talk to them until you have your attorney present. Now most young guys don’t have an attorney on retainer and you may have no idea who to call. That is OK. You will figure it out but in the mean time don’t talk about what happened other than to say you were forced to fire. You don’t have to be an asshole just remember wait for your attorney.

Hopefully you will not give a statement for a couple days. Remember if you are put in jail that doesn’t mean you are charged. Most places can hold you 48 or 72 hours on a felony before charging you or letting you go. Breath deep and get an attorney.

Expect to never get your gun back. You may get it back one day but maybe not. Do not buy expensive guns for the street. Buy yourself a nice sporting gun if you want a nice gun. Keep your street guns basic. The factory Model 10 Smith and the GI 45 have done a lot of work over the years and aren’t fancy.

Worlds

We all live in different worlds. My world is filled with felons and gang members. Violence is common place. No one would be surprised if one of their friends called and said they shot a hold up man at a place of business or parking lot. In the past when I made calls the fact that the guy who is beating his GF is also on parole for 2nd degree murder flavored my world.

You may live in a smaller, less violent place where shootings seldom occur and it would be a rare to shoot a hold up man. I envy you and will be moving to a place like your town as soon as I can.

But be advised no matter where you are a hold man is going to be about the same. Whether he is a home boy or a guy who just exited the interstate into your town and needs some quick money. He is going to have a vicious streak and no regard for your life. Treat him like he treats you.

Giving them the money, doing what they say, all that may work but there is no guarantee. If you have never read Jeff Cooper’s book The Principles of Personal Defense I suggest you order a copy immediately. It is a short book but summarizes a lot of important things.

Last year we had a trial here regarding an armed robbery that occurred. Three or four guys took a young couple from a parking garage near a college out by some railroad tracks where they raped, shot, and beat them. Their lives will never be the same.

The lesser thugs all turned on the trigger man at trial. The trigger man’s statement in the paper was after all that had happened he felt like he was a victim. Think about that. That is the mindset you are up against.
In addition to the original post some other active police members added some  further thoughts. These from John_wayne777.

You can’t understand the way they think because they aren’t human. I say that with every ounce of sincerity I can muster. They are not human. They are best thought of as an alien species. They do not share or appreciate anything approaching a value system you or I would recognize. Their formative years were spent in an environment that was utterly alien to anything you or I ever lived in. As an example, yesterday I attended a lecture by William Aprill that dealt with what he termed “Violent Criminal Actors”, essentially the people who would be classified as sociopaths. He told the story of a 15 year old boy who got in a fight on a basketball court and lost. When the boy’s mother found out that he lost, she handed him a pistol and told him “WE don’t go out like that!”…and the boy returned to the basketball court and killed the other kid that beat him up. When Aprill did social work he would often stop and take a look at a neighborhood before a visit to a home. On one visit he was in an urban area and he noticed a group of young kids (8-10 years old) that were playing on a basketball court that didn’t have any hoops or backboards. The game they were playing involved grabbing one kid by the scruff of the neck, forcing him to his knees, then making the finger gun to the back of his head and mocking blowing his brains out execution style. After each repetition of this game the kids laughed hysterically and did it again.

Would your mother hand you a gun and direct you to go kill someone? When you were running around in your Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn years were you basically rehearsing street executions? I’m going to guess the answer to that is a big “No.”

That’s why you don’t understand criminals…because you’re thinking of them as human. Think of them as an alien species that just happens to be vulnerable to gunfire. They don’t think like you. They’ll become highly insulted if you don’t instantly cooperate in a robbery and feel that they are perfectly justified in killing you because…and I am not making this up…you’re the one who fucked up. They were minding their own business pulling off a perfectly routine robbery and you fucked it all up by not doing what you were told. That means it’s your fault, and you’re the one who was evil. Sociopaths consider themselves to be a breed apart from the rest of humanity. The rest of the people on this planet are nothing more than livestock to them. They have no more appreciation for human life than we have for the life of a bug when we stomp on it. In fact, they actually enjoy victimizing other people. They’ve done surveys of these guys and asked them about motivations for committing crimes and the answers range from giving them a sensation of power to actually giving them a feeling of accomplishment. You know how you felt when you graduated high-school or when you managed to get a raise? That’s how these guys feel when they cave somebody’s head in with a shovel.

From Blitz308’s AAR thread….which everybody should read…:

“Most violent criminals have been predators for a long time. They’ve actually developed a fairly sophisticated sense for what prey acts like and the characteristics of people who have fangs. They can also pick up on subtle body language cues that others might miss…like members of a small group of people all looking at one guy signaling unconsciously that he’s most likely the guy with a plan. A bad guy can be sophisticated enough to pick that up. In fact, it’s something that retired police officers or off-duty cops can encounter as people who know them can look to them in a bad situation betraying their badge.

Some bad guys react to that by fleeing. Some react to that by getting violent. You never know which you’ve got in front of you ahead of time.

Bad guys test and prod with all sorts of schemes and behaviors they’ve picked up from observation or from their criminal brethren whom they often team up with for the purposes of victimizing people. (Like the scumbag who shot Blitz did with that fat slag) To believe they are all mindless idiots who have no skill or sophistication is foolhardy. Nearly every violent criminal is or has been at one point a con man in another criminal endeavor…playing people’s emotions like a fiddle. Witness the number of bad guys who turn from attempted murder into blubbering beggar if the tables get turned. It’s not remorse…it’s a strategy designed to work on people who have a functional conscience like most of their prey has. They seared their conscience long ago.

The incident with the girl who was raped by the bad guy who touched her hair is a perfect example of that. He used a ruse to close distance (the ruse is a common tactic of street thugs), crossed boundaries to see what her reaction could be…all sizing her up for assault. He saw the girl and in that moment decided he’d see if he could rape her. That’s how opportunistic these motherfuckers are. Don’t be nice or polite to people who look like thugs. Don’t be nice or polite to people who come at you while you’re all alone.

Example: There is a fellow out there by the name of William Aprill who has spent his adult life studying criminals as a psychologist. In one of his lectures I attended, he related that criminals have been surveyed on various things including why they commit violent crimes. One of the top responses for why they commit a violent act was a “feeling of accomplishment.”

Now that’s abstract, so let me anchor it in reality: Stop for a moment and think about how you felt when you graduated high school…or graduated college…or got that promotion…or bought your first house…or finished that difficult project. Something difficult that took you time and effort and that challenged your abilities, the completion of which signaled to you achievement of a goal or attainment of a status you’d been hoping for over an extended period of time. Do you have that feeling in mind? Good.

That’s how a bad guy feels when he bashes somebody’s skull in with a fucking shovel.”

 

Voiding warranties and breaking Glock parts

Previously I wrote about my new Surefire light.  I didn’t like the sharp crenelation on the bezel so I threw it in a lathe and turned them off.  I really like how it turned out.

Pretty sure I voided my warranty doing that, but very worth it.

 

Recently I had someone ask me if I had a spare Glock 19 locking block.  Of course I did.  Turns out that they had a broken locking block in their Gen 3 G19.

The owner of that Glock has realized that their trigger pin had broken.  They continued to use the pistol with the broken trigger pin for at least several thousand rounds.  When they were going to replace the broken pin, they found that the 3rd pin had bent and the locking block was broken.  The pistol functioned fine during this time.

My guess is that the broken trigger pin allowed the locking block to flex a little until it failed.  The pins and locking block were replaced and the pistol is back in action.

On that note, when reassembling a 3rd gen Glock, the slide stop goes in after the third (top) pin.  The trigger pin is the last pin installed.  Failing to do so can leave the slide stop spring in the wrong place causing it to not function or to prematurely lock the slide open.

A rotating barrel in the Glock 46?

Pictures are floating about the web and gun forums or a Glock 46, a new design including a rotating barrel and the ability to disassemble the gun with out pulling the trigger.

Looks like it might have been made for a German police contract.  Pictures and information appear to be coming from the German DWJ magazine.

Here is a link to a  copy of the magazine.   Unfortunately it looks like this upload being shared online may have been uploaded in violation of copyright rules, so I don’t know how long this link will work.

Gen5 Glock Stripped / Internals

We have been lucky enough to get several of the brand new Gen5 Glock 17’s and Glock 19’s, as the Gen5’s have been highly anticipated. This will be one article in a series on the new Gen5’s. Now that we have them, let’s strip one of the Gen5’s all the way down and look at the new parts.

The new Gen5’s have several unique, redesigned, internal components that are very different from all other Glock’s.  You can see it is a 2 pin design, like the old Gen1 and Gen2 Glock’s, with a Gen4 magazine release and stippling.  I have completely stripped this Gen5 G19 to give you an idea of what the new internal parts look like. When completely stripping the Gen5, you will notice some of the parts are similar in design to the single stack G42 and G43, just beefed up for the larger Gen5’s. Other parts are totally new and uniquely design for the Gen5 Glock’s. This makes the Gen5’s a completely redesigned Glock, that has very few part compatibility with the Gen1, Gen2, Gen3 and Gen4 models.

Below are the parts that are shared with previous generations. Some of this may change in the future as some parts are on the fence for now. I will list these to get them out of the way.

  • Gen4 Magazine Release
  • Gen4 Recoil Spring (RSA) – 9mm Only
  • Gen4 Magazine Catch Spring
  • Gen4 Trigger Housing Pin
  • Extractor Depressor Plunger Assembly (Loaded Chamber Indicator only)
  • All Gen Connector
  • All Gen Magazines & Internals
  • All Gen Spacer Sleeve
  • All Gen Firing Spring
  • All Gen Channel Liner
  • All Gen Spring cups
  • All Gen Sights
Gen5 Glock’s

Throughout this comparison I used parts from a Gen2 G19, a Gen3 RTF2 G17 and a Gen4 G19. While I will not go into a complete tutorial on how to strip your Gen5 Glock down, it is not extremely difficult and you can learn how to properly do it with some quality research.

When stripping the Gen5’s completely down, pay close attention to the parts that are significantly different in their design and placement in the firearm, compared to the previous generation of Glock models. Below are several pictures of a completely stripped Gen5 G19, the new internal parts and part comparisons to some previous generations.

LOWER RECEIVER PARTS

Gen5 G19 Lower Parts

Lower Receiver:

The Gen5 has a completely redesigned Lower Receiver. Only two or three small parts are compatible with previous generations and you will see this below as we detail those parts. The Gen5’s have gone back to a two pin frame, like the Gen1 and Gen2 9mm Glock’s. The most noticeable external changes are the beveled & flared magazine well, and the removal of the finger groves.  The stippling is very similar to the Gen4 but the little pyramid stipples feel just a little smaller.  The Gen4 replaceable back strap system also appears to be the same.

note: I have seen a few places say the trigger guard has been undercut more, to reduce the (Glock Knuckle) effect that some experience when firing. From what I can tell this is not the case. I cannot see or feel that the undercut has been changed at all, it appears the same compared to all my previous generations.

Frame Pins:

As stated before there are two Pins on the Gen5’s. The Trigger Pin is new and redesigned. The two cut slots in the pin are a-lot shallower and wider than previous generations. It will not work in any other generation. The Rear Trigger Housing Pin is the same as the standard Gen4 Glock pins for the interchangeable back straps.

Gen5 Frame Pins
Trigger Pin, (Previous Gen’s Top), (Gen5 Bottom)

Locking Block:

The Locking Block is a complete redesign. When removed it looks like a Gen3 or Gen4 two pin block. Although it will slide into previous generation frames, the pin holes do not line up.

Locking Block

Ambidextrous Slide Stop Lever:

The Slide Stop Lever is a completely redesigned part. It is thicker and seams more robust than previous generations. The thumb tabs are also angled outwards slightly more.

Ambi Slide Stop Lever

Trigger Mechanism Housing w/ Ejector & Connector:

The Trigger Mechanism Housing (TMH) with Ejector, are very similar to the G43 in design. The TMH is not compatible with the previous generations. The Connector however appears to be the same as all previous generations.

Connector / Trigger Spring / Trigger Mechanism Housing

Trigger Spring:

The Trigger Spring parts, from what I can tell, also appear to be similar in design to the G43, and are not compatible with the previous generations.

Trigger Spring

Trigger Bar:

The Trigger Bar is another completely redesigned part that is not compatible with previous generations.  If you have a Glock 19, you will notice that the Gen5 G19 comes with a smooth faced trigger and not the traditional serrated trigger.

Trigger Bar
TMH / Trigger Bar

Slide Lock & Spring:

The Slide Lock and Slide Lock Spring design is similar to the G43. It is just larger for the Gen5’s.  Although the Slide Lock looks almost identical to previous generations, the cutout for the spring at the bottom is wider to accommodate the new coil spring.  The Spring is a coiled spring instead of a leaf spring of the previous generations.

Slide Lock & Spring

Magazine Release:

The Magazine Release looks to be a standard Gen4 magazine release. It is just slightly extended and feels more rounded at the edges. It is compatible with the Gen4’s and this mean the Vickers extended Gen4 magazine releases should be good to go in the Gen5.

Magazine Release

Magazines:

Magazines are compatible with all generations.  The floor plate has just been reshaped in the very front. The Orange follower is just Orange. It is still the same 9mm #6 follower, so in the future you will probably be able to switch out your black followers to Orange, when the followers become available. The magazine body is also the same.

Magazines with #6 Followers
Orange #6 Follower

SLIDE UPPER PARTS

Gen5 Slide Parts

Slide:

The slide on the Gen5’s has been redesigned of course, with an ambidextrous slide stop cut on the right side and reshaped/contoured muzzle end. The breach face is also different to accommodate the new Firing Pin shape. One thing I found interesting, is the slide is just slightly longer than previous generations at the muzzle end. Less of the barrel and recoil spring is protruding from the slide, compared to previous generations. The recoil spring assembly is actually recessed back into the slide slightly.

G19 (left) G19 (Gen5 right)
Gen5 Muzzle

Barrel & Recoil Spring Assembly:

The Barrel is marked with a 5, noting it is a Gen5 barrel. The barrel has traditional (lands and grooves) rifling and does not have the standard Glock OEM Polygonal rifling. This new barrel is the Glock Marksmanship Barrel (GMB). The barrel has a deeper recessed crown and the rifling extends closer to the chamber.  For fun I swapped out the barrels on several different G19’s with the Gen5 barrel and I put older barrels in the Gen5 G19. I did not have any assembly or disassembly issues. I would contact or wait for Glock to approve this before attempting to fire any of the barrel swaps.  This might be a sign that you can upgrade your previous generation Glock’s with the GMB barrel. That would be a smart move if Glock intended to sell the GMB as an upgraded barrel.

Crown (Gen5 bottom)
Recoil Spring Gen5 19

The recoil spring assembly (RSA) on the G19 appears to be a standard Gen4 duel captured recoil spring. The Gen5 G17 RSA looks a little longer. I believe this is due to the Gen5 G17 barrel lug being different than previous generations.  The Gen5 G17 has a G19 sized locking lug. The picture below was provided by an AR15.com member.

Gen5 – Gen1 G17 RSAs

Slide Cover Plate:

The Slide Cover Plate is a totally new design to accommodate the new internals. This part is not compatible with any previous generation. The Orange Glock Armorer’s Slide Cover will work for checking your Trigger Bar and  TMH connections/tolerances.

Slide Cover Plate (Gen5 right)

Firing Pin Safety:

The Firing Pin Safety is a completely redesigned part, specific to the Gen5’s. Again it can only go in one way. The notch on the left side of Firing Pin Safety faces the Firing Pin.  The Firing Pin Safety Spring  appears to be the same part as any other generations.

Firing Pin Safety (Gen5 right)

Firing Pin Assembly:

The Firing Pin assembly is very interesting. Some parts are the same as previous generations and others are not. The Spring Cups, Firing Pin Spring and Spacer Sleeve appear to be the same as previous generations . The Firing Pin itself has a redesigned tear drop like rounded tip. The cuts for the Firing Pin Safety connection are also different at the head of the Firing Pin.

Firing Pin Assembly (Gen5 bottom)
Firing Pin (Gen5 bottom)

Extractor Depressor Plunger:

The Extractor Depressor Plunger Rod, Depressor Plunger Spring and the Spring Loaded Bearing appear to be identical to previous generations with the Loaded Chamber Extractor. The spring looks slightly different in color and is slightly longer. This may be for added strength and pressure for extraction.

Extractor Depressor Plunger (Gen5 bottom)

Extractor:

The Extractor looks to be similar in design to the previous generations. There are some minor shaping and cut angle differences. Not sure if it is compatible with previous generations but I do not see why it would not be.

Extractor (Gen5 right)

Final Note:

If you are not a Glock Armorer, Gunsmith or you are very unfamiliar with stripping your Glock down; I would not recommend any disassembly past regular field strip maintenance. Most people will have no need to break the firearm down to this level. Hopefully this answered some of the questions on the new parts and the compatibility of parts with the previous generations. If you have any questions or we missed something you wanted to know about, leave a comment or reach out to us on our Facebook Page.

Duncan.