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7.62MM AR Rifle Commonality

While browsing Brownells-ARFCOM tonight I ran across something worth taking notice of. Poster rpLo98 decided to rant a little on the AR10/SR25 ( 7.62MM) AR variants with some thoughts I agree with and have been saying since the 762 pattern started to get big around 09. His thoughts below.

JIMHO, and based on observations from sitting on the sidelines and watching multiple trainwrecks, if you’re going to assemble an AR-10 yourself, be prepared to invest some time with tinkering, analysis, research, and troubleshooting, and probably parts swapping. When I say AR-10, I’m not limiting the term to the true original Armalite AR-10, but the generic LR-308, AR-308, DPMS-type large-frame AR.

Even if you’re just slapping an assembled upper onto an assembled lower, even from the same vendor, there’s so many variables when it comes to AR-10’s, not to mention the lack of standardization, and the fact that AR-10 parts are still evolving, that there is a distinct probability that your home-assembled, home-built AR-10 may not run smoothly from the get-go. remember: if you ASS-U-ME, …

This is especially exacerbated if you’re going economy-grade with the idea that you’re going to save yourself a few bucks because you’ve done an AR-15: not the case. The dollars that you thought you were saving are invested in time and perhaps parts.

variables which affect functioning include:
ammo selection
buffer weight
buffer spring
buffer tube
gas length
barrel length
gas port
bolt carrier shape
recently, bolt carrier gas ports
source of forward assist (some AR-15 FAs don’t work on AR-308s)
location of forward assist on receiver
gas tube standard
head space
firing pin
pivot/take-down pins
mag release
DPMS or Armalite barrel nut
one vendors DPMS-type AR-308 upper might not fit another vendor’s DPMS-type lower
receiver rail height
suppressed or not
probably at least a dozen other factors,

not to mention:
AR-specific tools
home-assembler quality of assembly
home-assembler knowledge
home-assembler patience.

even if you buy an assembled lower, or even just a buffer tube kit, the vendor has no idea if you’re putting this on a 7″ pistol, or a 24″ long-gun, let alone what gas length or gas port your randomly selected barrel has, not to mention your ammo selection. one size does not fit all.

My humble opinion is that this applies to all brands of large-frame AR “kits”, parts, and assemblies.

like i said, JMHO. YMMV

I know this seems obvious but it’s not to a lot of people. The fact is there is no standardization of the 762 guns like there is the AR15 even with military adoption. There is thankfully and finally more widespread use of the SR25 pattern magazine. Not the M14 magazine patter used by “Armalite” for a while. The Colt 901, the M110 from KAC ( obviously) the LMT , the Larue all use the SR25 pattern magazine. And with that came the very good and very affordable 762Pmag from Magpul. Everything else is iffy.

There are some parts that will work with a couple of makers 762 guns but not many. And the thing to remember beyond the idea of putting one together yourself, which I would never recommend you doing with a 762 gun at this point, is that the makers themselves still haven’t quite got all the bugs and kinks worked out of the 762 guns. KAC would not admit it, but they are constantly tweaking the SR25s. Not because of better things coming along, but to get them to work better than past models. The problems with the M110 sniper rifle are well known. They even made a lot of back pedaling on that one, First it was to replace the M24 , then ” oh no no it was never meant to replace the bolt gun, it was meant to be a DMR replacement”. Then it was so telling us it has the same firing schedule as a bolt gun… It’s a fine gun but the truth is, it was a long way from being a mature design.

The cheaper bargain companies.. nuff said..

The fact is, we do not have the abundance of parts with commonality like we do with the AR15 yet. Every maker has at one point tried their hand at their own specs. For reasons that should be obvious. Those Fat Gov Contracts!!! Which is fine. But until something changes and one companies pattern is widely adopted and the other companies follow, we are still a ways from that. If you still want to go your own path at the very least make sure the gun you choose takes the SR25 pattern magazine.

WHEN GUNS ARE OUTLAWED ONLY SENIOR CITIZENS WILL HAVE KNIVES

AUBURN, Maine – 77-year-old Albert Flick, recently released from jail after being deemed too old to commit more violent crimes, was found guilty of murdering 48-year-old mother Kimberly Dobbie outside a laundromat in Lewiston, Maine, on July 15, 2018, while her 11-year-old twin sons were just feet away. The wisdom of these wise learned laws experts in black robs is stunning. Thank God we have them to dole out justice and make decisions on our lives by finding any reason to turn loose the most dangerous among us.

Mugshot of Albert Flick following his arrest for stabbing Kimberly Dobbie to death in July 2018. (Androscoggin County Sheriff's Office)
Mugshot of Albert Flick following his arrest for stabbing Kimberly Dobbie to death in July 2018. (Androscoggin County Sheriff’s Office)

“What happened to these children is just horrific,” Assistant Attorney General Bud Ellistold WCSH in Portland. “I know there is family involvement, services and we’re hoping for the best.” The twins have since been living with a grandmother in Massachusetts.

“I’m glad the verdict is done and over and I’m glad he’ll never be able to walk the streets again,” Dobbie’s friend James Lipps told a group of reporters outside the courthouse Wednesday. Again , again? Hey ,every one deserves a second chance right? maybe in 10 more years he really will be too old to be a thread your honor.

Ellis said he would ask a judge to make sure that Flick stays behind bars for the rest of his life because of his history of committing violent crimes against women. Not the same judge I hope.

“Mr. Flick murdered his estranged wife in similar fashion in 1979. He murdered Kim Dobbie, stabbing her 11 times at a minimum, now. I think obsession and infatuation was clearly in his twisted mind,” Ellis said during the trial.

Flick was released from prison in 2004 after serving a 25-year sentence for murdering his wife, Sandra, in 1979. The attack was eerily similar to the attack carried out on Dobbie — Flick stabbed his wife to death in front of her young daughter, Elsie. So weird, its like people like this guy have patterns.

Maybe this time the guy will die in prison, even though he should have been executed. But we can’t have that. It would be too cruel and inhumane I guess.

After Flick was released in 2004, he went on to assault two more women in 2010, but a judge only sentenced him to four years of jail time. Prosecutors and probation officials urged Maine Superior Court Justice Robert E. Crowley to give Flick a longer sentence, suggesting eight or nine years, to no avail.

“At some point, Mr. Flick is going to age out of his capacity to engage in this conduct, and incarcerating him beyond the time that he ages out doesn’t seem to me to make good sense from a criminological or fiscal perspective,” Crowley said of his decision at the time. Three guesses what political party judge Crowley belongs to.

That’s your justice system working to keep you safe people of Maine.

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/us-and-world-news/man-found-guilty-of-stabbing-woman-to-death-after-judge-deemed-him-too-old-to-commit-violent-crimes

The Colt AR-15 Resource

Friend of looserounds and world’s ugliest man , Brent has started his own website. While much inferior to this masterpiece, its pretty damned good. He’s still adding to it every day and I expect it to eventually be as referred to as retroblackrifle some day in the near future.

From the name, you can see it’s about my favorite topic. If you want to work on your Dan Watters level PHD of Colt minutia, then its a good place to start. He’s not even paying me to shill his site for him( though he can expect an invoice ). He has some pretty good stuff over there and between here and there I can’t imagine why anyone would need to go anywhere else.

https://thecoltar15resource.com/

The Dedicated .22 Long Rifle AR15

A few weeks ago I talked about the conversion kits for Ar15s. Using the .22LR rimfire round in your AR by swapping out bolts and magazines is thought of as a cheap way to shoot your gun more. Some of them work fine, some great but few give you much accuracy since you are firing the bullet in a barrel with a twist rate that is always going to be much faster than it needs.

Several years ago S&W came out with their answer to this. An AR15 that is a dedicated platform for the 22. The MP22. Duncan already reviewed one and talked about it a few years ago and you can find that on the site already so I will skip all that.

I wanted to compare the accuracy of the MP to the MK261 and the Colt conversion unit. To do this I cheated a little and put a leupold 10x scope on the gun and used Howard’s new piece of kit for shooting off bags. As you can see the MP22 is nearly a dead ringer for a regular AR.

same fire controls and even comes apart the same way

So you can train with it using rimfire without having to use something that feels “off” compared to your AR and without using the iffy conversion kits. So how does it shoot though? Pretty good.

Above are three 10 shot groups at 50 yards. I used federal bulk pack, some Remington bulk crap and some Winchester. It shoots pretty good. This from a bench rest and with 10X of course.

I’m not sold on the idea of using the 22 conversion or AR for training. Yes the gun feels the same with it’s controls but you don’t cope with 556 recoil. or muzzle blast or trajectory or really anything you cope with when firing the 556 or 762 or 300 blk out or whatever it is you like to use. You get some practice with fundamentals but that is really it. The gun doesn’t even weigh as much as a 556 gun. I always found this claim of cheaper training highly dubious. To me, its just a fun plinker or for shooting at birds and chipmunks or something for starting out a kid. But thats just like, my opinion man.

The gun is priced very attractive. That always helps . And it has been ultra reliable. Magazines can be had in different capacities though I can only never find the smaller ones in stock anywhere. It will also accept anything that will mount to a picatinny rail so you can go insane with mounting things to the gun that costs more than the gun if you are so inclined.

In summary, I do think it is a better option than the conversion kit bolts.