Category Archives: Scattered Shots

My 9mm AR

There are a couple different style of 9mm AR15s out there.  Used to be as simple as having two variations that were not interchangeable, the Colt pattern and the Olympic pattern.  Now there are other variations, but the majority have somewhat interchangeable parts with the Colt pattern.

In the Colt pattern, you are suppose to use a spacer in the buffer tube.  I finally bought a proper spacer, but previously I had been using a stack of quarters.

Proper spacer on the left, $1.25 on the right.(My old “spacer”)  Looks like the spacer is the same height as 4 quarters, and it has a section to slip into the spring.

My first 9mm AR was a Colt upper on a standard lower using a VM Hytech (sp?) Uzi mag block.  It let me used unmodifed Uzi mags, but I couldn’t use the normal AR15 magazine release.

I sold that Colt upper and picked up a 10.5 inch RRA upper.  That RRA upper had a very heavy barrel and ended up being much heavier than the Colt 16″ barreled upper.  I was not too thrilled about that.  Ended up getting rid of that some time ago.

An old picture of a messy desk and the RRA 9mm Upper.

A little while back I saw a guy selling one of the new Colt 9mm uppers that had a flat top for a good price.  I bought it and also purchased a Hahn Precision top loading mag block.

The top loading mag block allows me to use the standard bolt catch, and mag release with Colt pattern mags.  Installing the top loading mag block requires removing the bolt catch, so it isn’t very quick to install or remove.

So my 9mm AR is a Colt 6991 upper on an old SBR lower.  When using a 9mm upper you need to make sure to be using a compatible hammer in your fire control group.  I use a no-notch hammer.  Notched semi auto hammers will cause the action to lock up and make disassembly the firearm a pain in the ass.

One other change I made was to add a gas tube stub to the front sight base.  On a normal AR15, the gas tube prevents the front cap for the hand guards from rotating.  On a 9mm or .22 AR, there is no gas tube.  Some years back I got from Spikes Tactical some sort predrilled rod sections that you install like a gas tube to prevent your hand guard from rotating.  Not necessary, but a nice little little upgrade.

As shown in the picture, I have a KAC RAS quad on it, and I am running an Aimpoint PRO as the optic.  The Aimpoint PRO is an excellent lower cost option for a hard use optic.  If you shop around you can find them in the $350 range.

I don’t shoot the 9mm AR much, but it is a whole lot of fun.  It is excellent for when you are wanting to shoot steel targets at much closer ranges.

In the end, if I were to start from scratch, I would probably either just buy a factory Colt 9mm carbine or perhaps something like the SIG MPX.

“Good Guy With A Gun” 2 Heroes Actions & Possible Lessons Learned From Texas Church Attack

If you will permit me to beat a dead horse (and soon to be rotted and  turned to dust ) for a minute here I want to post a bit about the insanity that erupted in TX.

The fellow above,Stephen Willeford  was able to act and be there decisively when the cops , and the feds or the army or the IRS or even Barrack the Benevolent  could not be.   Hearing the attack, he got to his safe and grabbed his AR15 equipped with a red dot.  Not having a loaded magazine, he single loaded some as he was  moving toward the sound of the slaughter.   No word on if the AR had a shoulder thing that goes up or not in for the who are wondering.   He ran out and engaged the maniac.

Stephen Willeford and the  fellow citizen who helped him chase down and cover the killer should be the pictures and names being pasted all over the internet and news.   Their  actions and image are the ones that should become house hold names,  Not the filth that started this thing.   Of course the media  has to post the killers  dull eyed moronic cowardly  face over and over.  We don’t be doing that here.  I am a firm believer that people like that should be denied the attention they wanted and that giving it to them inspired futures idiots.

The Men acted heroically.  They may not think so and  they will no doubt deny it  as the weeks and months past, but they are.  Crowder has an interview with him below. I doubt many of you have not seen it yet.

If you can’t watch video because you are at work,  truth about guns  writes a recap I am going to skip doing.

Sutherland Springs “Good Guy with a Gun” Stephen Willeford: “I Got My AR-15 Out of My Safe . . .” [Video]

 

There are some lessons to take away from the response of   Mr.Willieford that  any responsible, honest student of self defense should spend some time looking at and thinking of.  It is NOT a criticism of him or his bravery to do an after action analysis.

I know some reading this will think I am being Mr. Obvious and everyone already knows all this and trains and prepares for it, But there is a lot more who don’t.

For instance.

Not having loaded magazines ready to go. Even if it was only one to stick in the back pocket.   It’s sobering to think what could have happened had he ran out engaged the killer  and ran out of ammo before making a lethal  hit.

Having to open a safe to access a firearm in a seconds count- life  or death – stop watch is ticking emergency.    I know this may be something some have to deal with depending on state or country.  I can not imagine not having a minimum of a rife ( carbine) and pistol available to me within seconds in my home.   With a way to loaded mags to support it along with it.     When away from home my vehicle may or may not have access to a long gun and ammo, and of course I carry a side arm with minimum of 2 reloads.

Our hero did everything he could and I’m sure he will doubt his actions and what else he could have done for years to come . I don’t want to add to that on him but you   have to think about these things.  It can happen and you have to be ready to act to save yourself  or others.   Think about where you have stuff and how to get to it as fast and safely as possible.

Ammo selection. We don’t know what our good guy used and while it worked there is no reason not to think about it.  Bad guys are using body armor and more sophisticated “gear” more and more.  Walmart bought  value box ammo in your 556 may not be the best choice.   Of course if you have enough of it and can shoot the target enough times anything can work.   If you haven’t been thinking about it, its time you wake up to the fact you may have to contend with body armor  and the accuracy it takes to shoot smaller targets not covered and do the most damage to that exposed part that you can.

Accuracy.  Many, who think they can actually  can’t make an offhand standing  shot on a head sized target with a red dot at even 50 yards.  That isn’t counting having a heart rate of 400 while some one is about to or is shooting at you.    nothing but center mass practice at 20 yards  and less  just doesn’t cut it anymore.   Yep if you shoot some one with body armor in the chest 30 times,  the target will take notice but you may not have the chance or the time or any number of factors.

Good guy body armor?   Many people have it, including all of us here.  If our hero had it and had time, it would have been wise for him to don it.  That is a huge IF though.  Seconds passing meant more victims.   But  would another death have helped thing if plates or armor had stopped a round from the bad guy?   I feel like the time it took to slip on  at least body armor could have been offset by not having to diddle with a safe  combination lock.   On the other  hand, if maybe, you can act fast and decisively enough on the threat…

On the other hand if  the police show up and you are wearing body armor with a carbine  in your hand    etc..    Not easy or possible to think about once  the maniacs start or a terrorist attacks happen.

Anyone who wants to discuss any of this please do so in the comments and  at some point I will add them into the post. Hopefully we will be able to learn from this and help people act even faster and with more safety in case of future events.    Hopefully some great points can be added from our knowledgeable commenters and we can create something here that may help some people.

 

 

 

The Ultimate AR15

I’ve been sorting though old photos of mine and I came across a later picture of the first AR15 I built.  Back when I decided to build it, I had decided that I would build the  ultimate AR15  One that would do everything I could possibly need it to do.

Oh boy was I naive.  Mainly about AR addiction.

Around the end of 2004, when the silly Assault Weapons Ban ended started a vast rise in the popularity and customization of the AR15.  I had been reading the AR15.com forums for a little while and decided it was time I build one.

I started with an RRA lower.  At the time they were pretty highly regarded, and it is was pretty much all I could get.  RRA tightened up the openings where the take down pins went so it was rather hard to attach or remove an upper for quite some time.  Eventually the lower wore in and is as loose as an GI gun now.

Standard GI style trigger.  We didn’t have Geissele triggers then, so there was no want for anything better.  Like most people today I didn’t care for the bump on an A2 pistol grip.  Unlike many  who were using Magpul or Tango Down grips at the time, I used an A1 grip for its slightly larger diameter combined with a Magpul winter trigger guard.  Really wanted to be ready if I had to use large gloves in Florida’s harsh winters.

This was before push button quick detach sling swivels were popular.  I don’t know if they even existed back then.  HK sling snaps were often considered the way to go.  I used CQD front and rear sling mounts.  I’m still fond of those, but I tend not to use them any more due to the much greater convenience of QD sling swivels.

I used a CAR stock on the gun.  Started with a reproduction aluminum CAR stock as I thought a metal stock would be better than plastic.  Later switched to a surplus CAR stock.  Not quite sure why, but I am still rather fond of the old CAR stock and I still use them.

Now the upper is really the heart of an AR.  At the time I decided I would go with the best, no expense spared.

So I bought a CMMG 16″ M4 upper.

CMMG was pretty highly regarded at the time.  They were being innovative, offering options many other companies didn’t, and they truly had awesome customer service.  They didn’t keep that reputation long.  A 16 inch barrel was chosen due to our laws and it still is an good compromise length for handling and velocity.  I stuck with the standard A2 flash hider.  Later AR uppers I had had Vortex, Phantom, and all many of other muzzle devices.  I tend to find unless you are mounting a muzzle break or a silencer that it isn’t worth the cost of these specialty muzzle devices.

Back then I wouldn’t have considered trying to bench rest an AR15 and shoot sub-MOA.  Wouldn’t have expected to run high power scopes, match ammo, or anything else of that sort.  I was solely familiar with the M16A2 style configuration so the whole carbine config was new to me.

I paid a little more for a chrome bolt carrier.  Chrome bolts weren’t available at the time from CMMG.  (Probably out of stock)  It can be nice to have a chromed or some other fancy finished BCG, but now days I don’t bother with the extra cost.

A Samson quad rail was chosen to free float the barrel.  One with a removable bottom rail was used so that I could easily access the barrel for cleaning, and retained the ability to mount a M203.  (Yea, I wanted a M203 back then)  The Samson rail was well made, but discontinued shortly after I got mine due to some sort of legal issues between Troy and Samson.  Their rail was good and heavy duty, and generally heavy in weight.  While it was a good product, there are so very many better choices now.

A ran a couple different rear sights.  Often I used an A1 detachable carry handle.  Sometimes a standard detachable carry handle.  Later I switched to a Troy rear sight.  The Troy is still an excellent choice.

Used my first Eotech with this rifle, a 512.  Had issues with that one draining batteries when off, and the battery contacts broke.

Wasn’t a bad configuration, but certainly far from the ultimate AR.  I still have the lower, I SBR’d it some time ago.  The upper was sold or traded off for something that would have also been sold or traded off by now.  I don’t miss it.

Accuracy Testing Vintage Colt SP-1 AR15 Rifle

Back in June I shot a vintage original Colt AR15 SP-1 carbine  to see  what kind of accuracy could be expected from one in good condition.  The results  got me thinking about the  M16A1 and  the accuracy it could deliver.   Of  course the internet and  gun magazine experts always like to remind us how the original M16s  didn’t impress when it comes to accuracy and you should totally feel good about paying 400 dollars  for modern barrels.  After all  they do have everything man can devise to make them more accurate.  You got gold coloring,  chamber dimensions that are a hybrid of the NATO spec chamber and civilian competition variations,  different materials  and methods and every contour and length you can think of.  Aren’t we lucky that we aren’t stuck with those old crummy barrels from the 60s?

The SP-1, otherwise known as the Colt AR15 is essentially an M16 in all but the fire control group.  The barrel is the same as was used on the M16 series.  Like the SP1 carbine, the  barrel is the 1/12 twist chrome plated ( bore and chamber)  milspec barrel.   The twist rate means you won’t be using any pet 69 or 77 grain bullets, but they didn’t really exist in its original day so your choices were simple.

I put the gun up on bags and use the original Colt 3X scope I have mounted on the gun for shooting the groups.  I wanted to stay within what some one would have used at the time but wanted to be able to squeeze more out of the gun than irons sights would allow me.

Most of the ammo I used were hand loads I have developed over the years that  have always given me great accuracy from bolt guns and semi autos.  I did shoot one group using M93 just to see, but since I wanted to test what the gun could do, I gave it the best ammo I had.

The first group shot ( above) is also the newest load I have developed.  This is one I came up with about 6 years ago with the exact purpose of using the SP1 for hunting  by my Dad. He wanted to shoot a deer with the same gun he carried in Vietnam. I selected the excellent Barness TSX solid copper hollow point for a deer load and it performs.  The TSXs are long for weight since they are solid copper. So you even with a 55 grain bullet you may end up with a bullet a little too long for the 1/12 twist to stabilize.  The 55 TSX will work  fine as it turns out but I wasn’t sure at the time and the bullets are very pricey so i went the safe route.  You can see the 5 round group above, fired from 100 yards.

The next group is an old fav.  The Nolser ballistic tip boat tail  55 gr bullet is a great bullet that seems to be impossible to shoot bad.   It lived up to what I hoped in the AR15.  As I labelled the picture, its 5 rounds at 100 yards.

This group was a little  bit of a surprise to me.  Sierra blitzkings   have always been interchangeable with the Nosler  for me.  It is still nothing to complain about  but i actually thought they would out do the Noslers  for some reason.  Maybe I didn’t let the barrel cool between shots like I had the other groups or  who knows what. That was the last 5 rounds I had with the blitz kings loaded though so I couldn’t shoot a second group.

The Hornady V-max is a great bullet. A short stubby basllistic tip boat tail that you can get going pretty fast in a 556 because of the weight.  Like the Sierra 53 grain flat base HP its short length seems to made for use in an AR15.  It is another load I have been using over 20 years and it always performs.  It really was exceptional in the old SP1.

M193.   No shock here.  Maybe that it even did that good.  But its only 100 yards and that is a 2 inch dot.

The final group.   A full 20 round magazine  of the most accurate lighter weight bullet load I have ever come up with. It’s the load I use in my heavy barrel  223 bolt guns for  crow hunting and varmints. The 50 gr V-max is a great bullet and there is not a .224 round made that won’t shoot it well in my opinion.   I should mention it took me about 35 minutes to shoot those 20 rounds.  I had taken a long break before i started this group and gave it my complete effort and I think it paid off.

Now keep in mind, I did some warm up shooting with the gun and most of those loads before I got down to the “record” strings.   Since the barrel on the original guns are much thinner than what people are used to using now it has to be taken into account when you are trying to  get everything out of it you can.  It took most of the day to shoot those 6 groups.   Letting the barrel cool and slowly firing. Even using that 3x scope took a lot of effort, It is still clear and find but the crosshairs are not what you would call fine,  this being the reason i adjusted the rounds to impact below  my aiming point It was hard enough to see the dots from 100 through it as it was.    The trigger on the gun also was a great help since it is not the factory trigger.  The lower and the FCG  used to belong to a now long retired AMTU armorer and he  had worked the parts over in the 80s  before mass produced match triggers for an AR didn’t exist and not many people ever thought they would exist.   It is a single stage trigger that breaks so light and clean  that you would wonder if its even safe.   I have no idea how he did it  but I have not felt a modern match trigger for semi autos that feels better.  I can honestly say its the best feeling trigger I have.

So, those old barrels and guns aren’t so bad after all, assuming its in good shape and not worn out, shot out or pitted out.  Ammo selection as usual was the limiting factor.  I kinda like the idea of a  varmint precision AR with a 1/12 twist barrel now that i think about it.  Even if it existed though there would not be much point to it, as the 1/7 or 1/8 will shoot these lighter bullets just as well or so close  it isn’t worth debating but the 1/12 will not shoot the heavier more useful  bullets.

 

 

Thoughts on the Pistol Caliber Carbine

There has been a resurgence in the popularity of the pistol caliber carbine(PCC).  PCC’s can be a whole lot of fun, and still hold a place as a fighting weapon.  Yet these guns are in a sort of odd place.  There are some cheap ones that are hit or miss, some expensive ones that are mostly purchased for the novelty or nostalgia (UZI, MP5), and other oddball options.

Pros:

  • cheap ammo
  • low recoil
  • easy to suppress
  • higher capacity than a pistol
  • easier to shoot than a pistol
  • better sight and optics options than a pistol
 Cons:
  • more expensive than a pistol
  • not concealable like a pistol
  • rifle size and weight with out a rifles performance
  • generally more costly than a pistol

Many people and groups have moved from the SMG and PCC to carbines and Short Barreled Rifles.  Smaller rifles give better terminal ballistics and vastly increased range.

Questions you need to ask are:
  • What price are you willing to pay?
  • What caliber do you want?
  • Do you want something small, or are you will to have something rifle sized? (Barrel Length)
  • Do you want a proper stock, or is the arm brace sufficient?

There are four common configurations of PCCs.

First is a 16 inch barreled rifle with stock.  Be it a .357 level action, or a Hi-Point carbine, these rifles are purchased just like any other rifle.   This is the most common, and the most practical version of the PCC.  Easy to purchase and use.  Only real downside to a rifle sized firearm in a pistol caliber is the barrel length.  Often, pistol cartridges gain little from a 16+ inch barrel, so a standard rifle ends up being larger than what would be ideal.

Face it, a Thompson is more of a rifle than a carbine.

The second common configuration is that of a large pistol.  For example the Tec-9s or semi auto MAC-10s.  These are purchased and sold just like a pistol.   Larger examples can be found in the MP5K and Scorpion EVO 3 pistols.  These are fun, but tend to be the least useful configuration.  They are larger and heavier than a full sized pistol, and can be large enough to make them awkward to shoot.

As cool as this is, it isn’t exactly a practical pistol.

 

Now, there is a better third option.  With the advent of the various forms of arm braces, we see these large pistol firearms gain a great deal of utility with an arm brace.

These arm braces have added a great deal of utility to these huge pistols.

Fourth major option is to go with a short barreled rifle.  This is often considered the best way to go, but unlike the previous options you end up with a multitude of various downsides.  There is a long waiting time while the ATF processes your paperwork.  Then you should keep a copy of that paperwork with you(not the original).  Not to mention issues like not being able to lend it to people or limitations on traveling between states, etc.  Despite all of that, I would still recommend going this route if you intend to use a pistol caliber carbine a good bit.  16 inch barrels are rather unnecessary in pistol cartridges, and it is well worth having a functional stock.  That said, the cost and time involvement to get a SBR makes it not right for most.

I personally use a Colt 6991 9mm upper on a SBR lower.

 

NRA supports new gun control legislation, GOP already working on it.

The NRA has released a statement about their support for new gun control laws.

“In the aftermath of the evil and senseless attack in Las Vegas, the American people are looking for answers as to how future tragedies can be prevented.  Unfortunately, the first response from some politicians has been to call for more gun control.  Banning guns from law-abiding Americans based on the criminal act of a madman will do nothing to prevent future attacks.  This is a fact that has been proven time and again in countries across the world.  In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law.  The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.  In an increasingly dangerous world, the NRA remains focused on our mission: strengthening Americans’ Second Amendment freedom to defend themselves, their families and their communities.  To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence.”

The Republican party is already prepping a new bill to ban bump fire stocks.  More information here at CNN.

People either forget or ignore that you can not legislate people into acting morally.  Some pro gun groups and people think that we can compromise with anti-gunners.  There is no compromise in cases like this, all we are doing is handing a victory to the people who want to erode our right

A rotating barrel in the Glock 46?

Pictures are floating about the web and gun forums or a Glock 46, a new design including a rotating barrel and the ability to disassemble the gun with out pulling the trigger.

Looks like it might have been made for a German police contract.  Pictures and information appear to be coming from the German DWJ magazine.

Here is a link to a  copy of the magazine.   Unfortunately it looks like this upload being shared online may have been uploaded in violation of copyright rules, so I don’t know how long this link will work.

Guest Post: Brief History of Air Guns

Article submitted by Michael.

Brief History of Air Guns

Air guns have been around for about 500 years and they are a great alternative to firearms. They can be used as entertainment or for pest control and small game hunting and modern models use one of the three available types of power source: spring-piston, compressed gas, or pneumatic.

Air guns are also used in sportive competitions such as Field Target or the Olympic 10 m Rifle. They are also more powerful than airsoft weapons and use different types of pellets. I felt the need to add this explanation as many people get them confused.

Today I’ll take you on a short trip down memory lane and I’ll talk about the history of the air gun.

The beginnings

The first historical record of an air gun is dated back in 1580 and you can even see it at the Livrustkammaren Museum in Stockholm. This time is also recognized as being the start of the modern air gun.

Still, before it got to what we know today, the first models used a pump to fill the air reservoir. Until the 19th century, people used air guns to shoot large game and they even used them in warfare (take a look at the Girandoni air rifle). These guns supported a .30-.51 caliber and reached a speed of 650 to 1000 feet per second.

Given the time and the fact that firearms weren’t at their best time, air guns were considered superior. For instance, an air gun wasn’t affected by the weather (if the gun power would get wet it was rendered useless), and it was quieter so it wouldn’t disclose the shooter’s position – a feature that made them great for an armed conflict.

Time for Glory

As the air gun proved so effective in the battlefield, both France and Austria had sniper detachments equipped with air rifles. The Austrian forces even developed a weapon that was about 4ft long, weighed 10 pounds, and supported a .51 caliber, called the Girandoni air rifle. The rifle had a tubular magazine and could hold up to 22 rounds.  This gun had the power of a modern .45 ACP caliber pistol.

The Modern Times

As the firearms developed, the air rifle lost in terrain, but it’s still used for the level of energy it delivers. During the 1890s, people started using them for competitive target shooting and the sport became quite popular. Even more, over 4,000 associations and clubs were founded during this time all over Great Britain, but Birmingham was the main center.

Today we still use air guns for competitive sports and for hunting and I think it will be a long time before the air gun will be rendered obsolete.

Air guns vs. Airsoft Guns

Many people (especially beginners) tend to consider that airsoft guns and air guns are the same. While there are some similarities in design and in popularity, the two types of guns are very different.

A quick look on goog gun will tell you that airsoft weapons are safe to use in war games and even children can play with them. Well, air guns are a lot more powerful and they use metallic ammunition, not plastic pellets like airsoft models. Because of this, air guns can’t be used to shoot at people or property – they do inflict damage and can be lethal.

You should also know that both types are legal to own in most areas and they are great for practicing your shooting skills and keeping your hobby alive. Still, the history shows us that air guns were the first ones at the table.

Oil , Lube, Grease, Cleaning. What do I Use?

I get asked all the time what lube I use on my AR15s and other guns.  I doubt I’m the only one that gets this question. It’s a topic all over the gun forums with people arguing the virtue of their favorites.  I don’t usually don’t feel a need jump in this discussion except when the topic turns to bore solvent.  I see a lot of people declare hoppes9 the end all be all of bore solvents.   Folks. That just ain’t true.  I suppose if you just like to swab the bore a little it will work ok for your needs, nut for a real deep true cleaning,  you have to use something else.   But first let me talk about the lubes I use.

There it is.  I could probably end this post right now and say nothing else and I would have said enough.  Truth is though, the slip2000 product line is great.  It’s not snake oil. its nor cooking oil or whatever. It’s just good stuff.  it doesn’t stink, it won’t poison you and it stays put and works.    The  bore cleaning  carbon cleaner solvent with the green color even works well.   I like to soak parts in it  then tooth brush them clean.

The EWG is a grease as you can see and It is just a thickened version of the lube . It stays in place no matter what.  If I’m going out in conditions where I know it’s going to likely really rain or be wet for several days, I slather it on.

I also like to dab some on the inside of a M1911 or other lesser pistol if its a really hot day and we are going to be doing some major round count shooting.  The gun can get  too hot to hold and it can be 100 outside but this will still be on the gun at the end.

The other lubes are my day to day workhorse lubes.  It seems to not be well known, but slip2000 oil is actually a CLP, that combo much beloved by many who are always looking for a magic bullet answer. The truth is, it works really good in that role.  Like all CLPs it doesnt do all three things  perfectly, but it will lube and protect excellently. And like regular CLP, it will make cleaning much, much easier when you are using it as your main lubricant.

The SLip200EWL 30 is a thicker version of the regular EWL. It stays put and doesn’t spread out and run off like a thinner lube.  I like to use it in tight spots and hard to get to areas.  I especially like it on my CCW pistol in summer when it gets really hot and I don’t want my clothes ruined. It’s also a great choice for storing your guns away for a few months.  It’s not what you would want for years long storage in a back room or underground tin foil bunker, but if you are needing rust prevention for a few months, this is good stuff and it can be left on and used  on a weapon without needing wiped off like something much thicker used just for long term storage.

Now here are some lubes I consider my 2nd choice.  These are  not bad because they are not my first choice. They just do not  have the same level of performance in areas I feel are important to my needs.  The CLP is a classic, you know what it does.    It is toxic though, they tell me anyway, and it is a pretty crappy cleaner in all honesty. Not that I would ever use it for that as long as I have a better choice.   But it’s a reliable lube that works even if you need to apply it often.

The other is the classic  military lube, LSA.  Not a cleaner and a so so long term rust preventive.   You can not mix it with other lubes you may have on the gun. so you have to commit to it like a marriage if you are going to use it on a gun.  It was developed for the M16 and other automatic weapons I have read in some TMs.  It does work really well as a lube only.   I have heard it is still in use in military stocks and some really love it.  It is getting harder to find though it seems.  But if you have a huge back stock of it like me bought over the years its a good 3rd choice.    Its mainly the lube I hand out for friends  or strangers who come to shoot and aren’t smart enough to have their own lubricant.

Every other lube not mentioned above is all fine and well.  I would use any and all of them if you handed it to me when I needed oil but just not what I would pick if I had choice  of my favs.   Some are snake oil however, and some just are marginally decent but I suppose better than nothing.

Here is something I first read about in Precision Shooting Magazine years ago and though it was a gimmick.

Hey, its legit.   BreakFree makes a copy of it you can get at walmart but it’s really not the same.  I have tried it and it takes a lot of the breakfree foaming bore cleaner to start to get some where, and to really truly clean you still need a brush and some elbow grease.   Thi stuff is the real deal though and I think what the breakfree brand tried to copy.   Its pricey but if you are like me and get really lazy sometimes or you are away from home and need to some what clean a bore over night in a hotel room or just need or want to clean during a break in shooting , this is really good.

Now the real cleaners for serious bore cleaning for precision rifles and match rifles there are only 3 I take serious.  I have used all three over many years and have absolute faith in them for real bore cleaning.

  1. Butches Bore Shine
  2. TM Solutions
  3. Shooter Choice

Now the first two are almost interchangeable in quality. Third is still great though  not quite as good as the other two.   TM has the real benefit of having almost no smell

Hoppes9 is not on the list..

Some older military bore solvents can be effective but hard to find and very toxic though.

Now the products that are more specialized but sometimes can be needed.

Sweets 762 solvent.  For heavy copper fouling.  It is safer than some say.  I soaked a blued barrel and SS barrel section in sweets for 6 months one time in the late 90s at my old job site .   No damage was done to the barrel steel sections.  Though I wouldn’t use it on a chrome bore AR.

JB Bore paste.   A very abrasive paste that is very messy and a lot of work but it can clean an old rifle bore that hasn’t seen a rod and patch in 50 years or was owned by an idiot.  Don’t go crazy with it because it is abrasive.

Brake Cleaner.  What is better than spraying crud off and out of semi autos  or anything?  Make sure to get the non chlorinated.

There is some other car solvents that I sue but, I am still testing and making sure they are not too damaging to guns and stocks etc before I recomend them publicly to people.

 

That is about it.    That is what I use and recommend. You may and can use whatever else you want but this is just what I use and it has not failed me.