In the last installment in this series I talked about the Remington 514 http://looserounds.com/2018/07/20/a-boy-and-his-rifle-part-iii-the-remington-model-514/
A classic vintage .22 bolt action rifle that many boys spend millions of summer days shooting at cans and birds and chipmunks and who knows what. I spent countless hours during the summers of the 1980s with my own Remington 513. Shooting at pests and a number of animate and inanimate objects in the hills. I recently started to think about what would I possibly be using if I was a kid now a days. Let’s forget the reality that there is likely no way in hell anyone would let a 10 year old boy wonder through the woods with a firearm by himself now a days. Even if they trusted the boy or girl and the boy or girl was trustworthy and mature enough, just one call from a “concerned ” neighbor would bring down more misery on the parents than job suffered.
Anyway, let’s pretend we exist in a wonder land where we could let kids act like they did in the 1980s and earlier. What kind of .22 rimfire might the kid of the current era carry?
I’m thinking the ubiquitous Ruger 10/22. Why not a AR type gun or a bolt action? well, it seems right to me that a kid start out with something a bit more simple. Something that has more in common with those Winchester M67s and Remington M113s than an M4 or a Sniper rifle. But since it is “current year” I made a few concessions to the reality that any Gen Z would want some things updated.
First Of course is the magazine. This would have to be a judgement call I think. I think any kid that plays evil vidja games would want 30 rounds though. And perhaps my policy is too laissez-faire for some of you. Don’t care.
Next is an optic. I put on this 10/22 a Leupold VarX-II I bought at a friend’s gun/pawn shop. I added a nice Weaver picatinny style base to mount it on.
This combo would make for a heck of a fun rifle with real ability for budding marksman. The groundhogs in the back 40 would not be safe.
You can see how it shoots above. No big test. I put up this target at 30 yards, laid down prone and shot with just the old elbows in the dirt for support. Ammo was bulk pack federal something or other. Why would a 10 year old even care? I didn’t back then. All I cared about was getting 50 rounds of .22 for &1 .99.
I’m sure everyone would have their own ideas about what a boys rifle should be. even in “current year” REEEEEEEEE!! the old vintage Winchesters and Remingtons and Savages are excellent. But I’m getting to be an old guy now and those guns still appeal to me. As Maya would say I’m a “BOOMER” ( no, just Gen X Ackthually) but I thought imagining a 2019 modern boy’s rifle would be a neat mental excessive.
We like Larue Tactical here. We LOVE Larue products here. Most of us use Larue mounts for our optics. Howard and I will both tell you they can’t really be beat. Howard owns Larue rifles in 556 and 762mm. We like and recommend a lot of what Mark Larue makes. Ahem…
Now Larue is really teasing his new bolt action design more.
So what are we looking at here? A M700 derivative. Yawn. I’m sure it will be made to a very highly quality. And I am equally sure that the price will reflect that. But, its a 2 lug bolt and round M700 receiver. Who is asking for this I wonder? There are already more custom M700 type custom gun makers than you can shake a stick at if you had a stick between every finger on both hands and and one clenched in your teeth. I saw a comment about this on B-ARFCOM earlier that sums it up.
Originally Posted By FedDC: Larue makes very good gear. I have a pile of it.
The 700 clone market has been saturated by machinists building very good 700 clone actions for 20+ years. Stiller is a good example.
The gun world doesn’t need another 700 clone.
Unless you are bringing some AI features like quick change barrels, calibers, mags, uber weight reduction, keyed pic rail optic mounts, short bolt lift without the weight penalty (3 lug), fixed ejectors, more reliable trigger design…
Fans will buy it…but it’s not changing the game. ”
Then again, it is designed for “superior lethality out to 1200 yards” ..
Now let me work from memory. This is just my stray memories, not a comprehensive researched list.
For better or worse, the AR15 standard is well known. The data package was leaked, and people can look it up. Still, companies cut corners or make parts that are not right. With .308 ARs, there is no single standard.
Let say you were going to buy mags for a future .308 AR. There are the SR25 pattern mags, which are most popular and available from Magpul, KAC, Larue, Lancer, etc. But those won’t actually work in an original Armalite AR10. Now, the Eagle Arms-Armalite rifle might be using the SR25 pattern mags, or a mag based off the M14 mag. There are also rifles that use FAL mags, but those are kind of rare. Then specialty 308 AR rifles like the HK 417 or MR762 use a proprietary mag.
At least the SR25 pattern mag has pretty much become the standard now. Magpul even makes a 50 round drum in that pattern. The availability of cheap good mags like the Magpul pmags and awesomely high quality mags like the Larue and KAC mags in SR25 pattern makes that the pattern I prefer to use.
There are different receiver patterns. There used to be two major versions referred to as AR10 pattern and DPMS pattern. Those were identified by a round receiver cut on the DPMS and a slanted cut on the AR10.
You can sometimes force a slant cut upper to work on a round cut lower, but there will be a gap even if it works. Even between lowers of the same style, they don’t always interchange. An Armalite AR10, LMT MWS, Larue OBR/UU/PredatAR/PredatOBR, KAC SR25, etc uppers should interchange, but they sometimes don’t. The push pin/take down pin locations sometimes vary slightly and/or are different diameters.
I’ve heard many stories that go like, “You can put Brand A on a Brand B, or Brand B on a Brand C, but you can’t put a Brand A on a Brand C.” I think the order was Armalite, Larue, KAC, but I may be mistaken. As I said, I am working from memory here.
Now, there are even more styles that do not interchange with the other brands of uppers.
It gets more fun. Lets imagine you buy a upper and a rail and you go to put it together. It might not work. There are different threads on some of the different barrel nuts. Larue used to sell a rail for the .308s. He had offer two barrel nut options as the Eagle Arms/Armalite and the DPMS were not compatible.
It gets worse. There are different receiver heights. Even among the same brand. DPMS changed the height of the rail on their uppers. So an old upper and a new hand guard won’t line up right. A quick online search points out that the old receivers were 2.063 inches tall and the new ones 2.003 inches. That is about a hair less than a 1/16 of an inch for those of you not used to the decimal inch. 1.542 mm in the wrong measurement system.
Some companies started offering their hand guards in both heights. Double check if you are building or customizing a DPMS pattern gun.
There used to be barrel & bolt interchangeability issues as well. It was recommended you get both at the same time from the same source.
The bottom is an AR15 carbine buffer and spring for reference. The other three are .308 AR buffers and springs. The middle two have different buffer weights and spring strengths. But those two are interchangeable.
308 AR rifles that use a collapsible stock tend to use a longer receiver extension (buffer tube) than the AR15. This longer tube is called an “A5” if you are using it on an AR15. (Brilliant move, take something already on the market and renaming it) The springs and buffers reflect this longer length tube. So you can’t just pull off your stock and install something like a Magpul UBR with out having to replace your buffer with something like a Slash Heavy Buffer for the AR15 length receiver extension.
Some of the old school .308 ARs had a really small cut in the carrier for the hammer, so a standard AR15 trigger group would not work with them. Now, any modern 308 pattern AR will most likely work with any modern trigger. But you should be careful that it isn’t a trigger so light and short that you will accidentally fire multiple shots due to recoil.
Really simple so far, right?
The gas tubes are not even the same length. Some use an AR15 length gas tube. Others a longer one. Some use a custom even longer gas system.
Some guns, like the SIG 716 use proprietary parts that you might or might not be able to buy from them. They have already discontinued several versions of that rifle. I wouldn’t want to own one because if a major part broke you might not be able to get a replacement. It was something like $300 for an ‘internal parts kit’ and they were not selling gas system parts. Or something like that. I think SIG makes good products, I don’t think they support them well enough.
A tangent. I was considering buying a SIG MPX, and they already discontinued the model I was looking at. Turns out they had something like 3 generations of MPX guns. All discontinued now that the Copperhead version is out. Sig introduces, sells, and discontinues models of guns before I ever hear about them.
Back to the topic at hand. I’m not saying don’t build a 308 AR. I love em. Just be really careful should you decide to build one your self.
Right now, I think one of the best values for a higher end gun would be the Larue UU kit. About $1200 for EVERYTHING minus a stripped lower. Your choice of calibre and barrel length. You can get it in AR10 or DPMS pattern. Then just slap it together on a Larue stripped lower or any cheap lower of your choice. That said, there are countless options. If you don’t plan on heavily customizing the gun and want to buy a complete gun, there are some great deals on the Colt 901 models. Shop around.
I was looking for a smaller case to put an SBR or broken down AR in. I have owned several AR soft cases and have paid quite a bit of money for them. About a year ago I saw the AR15.com 26″ Covert Takedown Case. For 60.00 dollars it looked like a case worth taking a chance on. Unfortunately it was never in stock. I finally clicked the notify when in stock button and was on the notification list for a long time. To my fortune, when I was notified it was back in stock, it was on sale for 30.00 dollars. Without hesitation I got one. At this price point it was worth the chance to gamble on the case. Looking back now, I should have bought two or three of them at that price. This case has many features higher priced cases come with and a little more.
One of the main reasons I looked at the ARFCOM case were the eight (8) Velcro straps that come with the case. Pretty much all soft rifle cases come with two (2) Velcro straps. The versatility of having (8) straps, gives you unlimited rifle mounting and accessory mounting options throughout the case, with the three (3) rows of MOLLE loops.
With the dimensions of 26L x 12W x 4D, there is ample room to place the upper & lower of your 10.3″ to 16″ rifle as well as its mounted accessories and additional accessories, in the case.
The case comes with four (4) D-rings on the back. These are large and seem to be very secure. The case does not come with a strap, but the addition of the D-rings allows you to mount a shoulder strap, if you want.
The case comes with upper and lower Velcro pockets for the foam padding sheets. The foam sheets are removable and replaceable. The padding is very generous at 3/4 of an inch on both the top and bottom. The foam padding sheet is a three (3) part sheet, a soft foam middle sheet, sandwiched between a top and bottom cardboard type layer, that has a thin foam coating. This pads the case nicely and creates some rigidity to the case. The (3) layer foam sheets also help the soft foam to avoid memory prints/indents. Surprisingly, the (3) layer foam sheets appear to be nicer and thicker than on the closed-cell foam on other higher end cases.
Velco & Zippers:
The case comes with a double sided carry handle that has a loop around Velcro closure. This allow you to secure both sides of the handle together for easier carry and security. The main compartment of the case has two (2) large zipper tabs. The zipper teeth are large and function very smoothly.
The AR15.com 26″ Covert Takedown Case appears to be made very well. The stitching is well done and it appears that it will hold up very well. I was unable to find out any real material specifications on the case. The case appears to be at least 500 Denier Cordura Nylon Fabric. The older version of the case had a stitched on AR15.com patch, that is no longer offered. It now has a Velcro loop patch so you can add any patch you would like on the case. I have compared this case to several other soft cases I have and the construction seems to be very close.
The mounting options with the size and (8) Velcro straps makes this case a huge winner in my book. The price point is also a major winner with this case. Even at the full price of 60.00 dollars, you could buy two of these cases for the price of some of the big name brand cases. With what I am going to be using the case for and probably what you will too, I do not see the advantage or need to step up into a higher priced case. There is so much the case can carry with your rifle and accessories, it is only limited to your imagination. As you can see from the pictures, you can place your fully outfitted rifle with magazines and other accessories with no problem. You even have some more room to spare.