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Let’s build a P80 “Glock”

I don’t really get much the appeal to the “ghost gun”. A P80 80% “Glock” Frame runs about $160. You can get a Glock frame for about $70. If you wanted to build a “ghost gun” SIG P320, it would cost you about 2-3 times as much as just buying a SIG P320. Similar with AR lowers. If you are looking to hide what you have from the government, don’t forget that ordering a parts kit or an 80% and having it mailed to your house leave quite the paper trail.

The Glock design has an awesome problem that the AR15 and the 1911 have enjoyed before it. You can build an entire “Glock” with out a single OEM Glock part. That can lead to an issue of reliability. You can find countless discussion online about people having issues with their P80 home built pistols. From junk aftermarket parts, to incorrect manufacturing of the 80% frame. For a person who needs pure reliability, they are best served buy buying the original.

All that said, it is pretty damned cool to make your own gun. If you want to do it. DO IT.

I found a P80 compact size kit for cheap. Personally, I wouldn’t pay full price for one. Not to knock the company or the product, but I am generally not going to pay more than the original for a knock off.

Let stop with the opinionated discussion and get to the product.
This is not a full set of instruction. There are plenty of those floating around online.

It came in a box.

The box contains:

  • P80 80% Frame
  • P80 Jig
  • M3 Drill Bit
  • M4 Drill Bit
  • 9mm HSS 3 Flute End Mill
  • Locking Block/Front Rails
  • Rear Rails
  • 2X Pins
  • P80 Business Card
  • A card telling you to go online and find some instructions.

Both drills were slightly undersided. This is probably a good thing. I didn’t bother to measure the real diameter of the 3 flute endmill because I don’t like measuring the diameters of 3 flute endmills.
The frame has a clearly different profile and feel than an OEM Glock frame.
There is a blank metal plate in the dust cover/light rail allowing you to stamp or mark the serial number of your choice.

The frame comes placed in the jig. The two halves of the jig snap together and point out where material needs to be removed.

Three holes need to be drilled in the frame. You drill each side separately, so that is drilling 6 holes. Took me less than 5 minutes do drill them. There are sections on the top frame, front and back, where material needs to be removed. That makes for 4 tabs to cut away.

There is also a area near the front of the locking block that is filled in. That will need to be cut away. Note how the front of the jig is splayed open. I’ll come back to that.

Polymer80, the company that makes the P80 (Gee whiz, where do they get their names?) suggests milling out these areas using a drill press and an adjustable vise. To do things authentically, I placed the end mill in a drill chuck to do it the way that they suggested. About 25 minutes later (taking it slow to take pictures), I had the material removed. I’ve read and seen video of people just cutting away the material or filing it away in under an hour. If I were to do another (I don’t plan to), I wouldn’t bother milling it. I’d just use some end clippers or side cutters to clip away the bulk of the plastic and then shave it down with a sharp knife or scrapper tool.

Suggestion: If you do decide to mill it. Two things. The jig is rather flexible, it helps to put a couple more clamps on it. My big suggestion is to plunge mill.

Drill chucks are not built to take side loads. Normal milling creates a side load that can cause a drill chuck to come loose. For me, when I tried side milling this frame, the jig was flexing so much I was getting chatter. Set your depth stop for the depth of the cut, and bring the end mill straight down like your were drilling. Bring it back up and move the part to repeat.

Trying to mill out that web inside the frame sucked. This was the slowest part for me. I couldn’t see well what I was doing, and the jig was not tight at the top. I put a clamp on the top of the jig and removed the majority of the material. I ended up using a scraper tool (like a knife) to remove the remaining material.

Look at how much the jig is open. It greatly helped to have a clamp at the top.

I didn’t bother to cut the tabs flush, as it seemed to be indicated that it was unnecessary to do so.

Installing parts into the frame mostly went easy. The pins were very hard for me to insert and I had to use a hammer and punch to seat them. I’m not going to complain because I’d rather too tight than too loose. I don’t plan on removing those pins unless I have too, like if a part breaks.

If you drill the hole wrong, you scrapped the frame. Fortunately, it is really easy to drill them. It is like the old adage that is easier to say than to do, “Don’t be stupid.”

Note how the rails for the slide to ride on are much longer on the P80. Polymer80 says these are hardened stainless. I read many accounts of people having issues with the rails not in alignment. I wonder if they drilled one or more of the holes sloppily and if that caused the issue.

I had no issues with frame alignment, but hand cycling a Glock slide, I hear the recoil spring assembly rubbing against something. I have read of people having issues with this and needing to remove more material than Polymer80 says to in the channel in the frame. I may do that later.

P80 with a Glock Slide

My intent for my P80 frame is to use it with an Advantage Arms .22 kit. But I need to make sure that everything is working right and there are no burrs, sharp edges, etc on these stainless rails as that could tear up the aluminum slide of the .22 kit.

Just a note, the AA kits are not warrantied or guaranteed to work on the P80 frames. I bet it is because no one knows how well a individual P80 frame was built and that the stainless slide rails, if out of alignment, would probably damage the kit.

Making the P80 frame was fun. Took me maybe half an hour between the milling and the deburring. That is not including assembly.

Looking at the dollar value, or for use as a serious fighting gun, I would absolutely NOT recommend the P80. But if you feel like messing around, or making your own custom “Glock” pistol with the parts of your choice, have at it. It is cool to have this option.

Just don’t drill those holes wrong.

The NoMar Rear M1911 Sight

Have a M1911 with the excellent fixed Novak rear sight that really wish you could have a BoMar on instead? You aren’t the only one. But, as you have likely already learned, the slide dovetail cut for one just will not allow the use for the other. Good news though. .

Karl Beining custom gunsmthing extraordinaire and Brandon Bunker has come up with a very slick solution

The Nomar sight base is the solution for the large numbers of 1911s being sold with Novak Low Mount fixed rear sights.  Many Colts, Springfields, Rugers, Dan Wessons, Rock Island’s etc come right from the Factory with a Novak Low mount rear sight cut.  This is a fantastic sight cut if you want fixed sights, but the adjustable options that fit the Novak LM dovetail are all lacking.  Some have very limited adjustment, some have no windage adjustment at all, but they all have small sight faces resulting in less than ideal sight picture for precision work.  The Gold Standard for 1911 Target sights is, and has been for decades, the Bomar Adjustable sight, the issue is once a slide is cut for a Novak LM rear, you cannot cut it for a Bomar cut, so a workaround had to be designed.  I teamed up with Brandan Bunker at Bunker Arms on designing a new base for the Bomar style blade (Mfg By Kensight), and the Nomar was the result.  We worked through a couple tests and redesigns to arrive at the current iteration that we feel looks the best and will work with the widest breadth of OEM Novak cuts.  Believe it or not, not every company cuts Novak rear cuts the same, so we are looking at making a taller base for STI slides and possibly others in the future.   The Nomar is not a wholly new idea, Rich Dettlehouser of Canyon Creek made some similar bases nearly 10 years ago, but seems his website and access to this part are gone.
The Nomar base does require professional installation as the Novak sight deck will need lowered and extended forward of the dovetail, pocket for the sight blade cut, and hole drilled and tapped for the elevation screw.

I’ve been watching this project and the pictures Karl has shared on various 1911 groups he and I both belong to. They look great and the work is first class. If you have a 1911 with a Novak cut but wish you had a BoMar you now know what to do.

for Professional Installation on your slide, contact Karl G Beining at www.kgbcustom.com


For the Nomar base, contact or order on Brandan Bunker’s site at https://www.bunkerarms.com/product-page/nomar-conversion-base

For the Sight leaf and other parts, contact Kensight and order a ‘Bomar BCMS Rebuild kit with complete sight leaf’  https://stores.kensight.com/

Glock Maritime Spring Cups

Standard spring cups on the left, maritime spring cups on the right.

There is a great deal of misinformation about Glock’s out there. From the ridiculous like it being made out of porcelain to it being the ultimate underwater weapon system.

I saw a claim stating that the Glock is the only pistol able to fire underwater because of the reduced friction from the polymer frame. Laughable.

Many firearms will work underwater with a few conditions. First there can not be air trapped in the barrel as that can cause catastrophic failure. Water will slow the fall of hammers and the movement of parts, so weapons with weaker or less reliable ignition systems may fail. Hollow points and similar expanding ammunition may cause failures by trying to expand in the barrel when fired.

There have been various documented tests out there showing 1911s, Revolvers, and other firearms functioning fire under water. Most of the times you hear about firearms blowing up from water in the bore it is because the firearm is out above the water while water is still in the bore.

That is not to say that firing underwater isn’t dangerous. Shooting is dangerous to begin with. There is more that can go wrong under water, and since liquid is effective incompressible, the noise, shock, and blast from the shot carry far better than they do in air. That means that the blast will be far worse on your ears and rest of your body.

You can find videos of people firing rifles underwater. That gets a little more complex. Similar thing, it is air in the system or bore while underwater that can cause failures when the gun is completely immersed. Or water in the while when it is taken out of the water. There is plenty of discussion and information about weaknesses in the AR15 design for over the beach use. Funny thing is there is a story about a guy who completely immersed his AR15 and was having no issues shooting it underwater. It was only when he pulled it back out of the water that he blew it up.

But I am getting off topic. Point is, most guns will work under water, but it is not ideal.

At the request of some group or another, with a Florida police department usually getting the credit, Glock designed modified spring cups for maritime use. These are not necessary for using the Glock under water, they simply exist to aid in reliability if there is water in the striker channel.

Now there is a cost to them. A set of maritime spring cups would run you 10-20 dollars and about 5 minutes to install them. These maritime cups have less material, and may fail sooner or be more likely to fail than the standard spring cups. I haven’t ever heard of a set of maritime cups failing, but it is possible.

It can be a little hard to find factory Glock brand maritime spring cups. Plenty of unscrupulous dealers will buy aftermarket connectors, maritime spring cups, etc and claim that they are factory Glock parts. I had some “Glock 3.5 Lb connectors” that causes reliability issues. I later found out that one of the aftermarket companies (maybe Scherer?) had a run of defective connectors. When I later bought more Glock minus marked connectors, those looked different and had no issues. Unfortunately the dealer I used to trust years ago went out of business. Went or jail or something that. Maybe I shouldn’t have trusted them either.

I live in an environment with a good bit of water so I choose to run the maritime cups. I needed some more so I shopped around for a while and saw several reviews of people claiming that the ones they received were aftermarket. I finally found a dealer that had great reviews and bought from them. Unfortunately the ones I received just came in a unlabeled zip lock bag, so I question their origin.

Buyer beware, I suppose.

Discussion on starting guns, continued. . .

The other day I wrote about what I would buy if I were starting over. Article here.

Some people have complained about that article, and seem to think that I am telling them to buy what I would buy. That the stuff I talked about is too expensive, etc. I never said you need to buy a Colt 6945 and set it up EXACTLY the way I have mine set up.

I NEVER said you need this gun, but I sure as hell wouldn’t want to live with out one.

That write up was about what I would buy if a fire or hurricane, etc destroyed my collection. For example, one bit I omitted, I love my M203. I wouldn’t recommend it as a serious gun for anyone (unless you have a source for HEDP). I find mine so very fun that it would be one of the first guns I’d order a replacement if mine were destroyed in a disaster or lost in a boating accident.

If you read that last article, you now know what I would be ordering if I was standing in a gun shop with an insurance check right after a tragic disaster.

When people ask me what guns to buy, I give the same answer. Colt 6920 with an Aimpoint PRO and a Glock 19.

Howard

The quote above was the very second paragraph in that previous article.

Let us think about this for a moment.

If someone who has no guns, suddenly for what ever reason, decides they need/want a gun. That is a complicated situation. “Why?” becomes the important question. If they are only interested in hunting cape buffalo, the advise for them would be very different than someone who is in fear of their life because of a local gang.

Generally it is our assumption that someone is going to buy a firearm for two main reasons. Protection of life & liberty as well as for the fun and joys of shooting.

Most any firearm can be fun to shoot, but not every gun is a good choice for self defense.

I always recommend the Glock 19, but plenty of other Glock models are available at good prices used. J&G Sales has used Glock 42s for $350. Other vendors have G22 for $270, G23s for $340. There are some LE trade in Gen 3 G19s for $380 shipped to your dealer, that includes 3 magazines. The .45 GAP model Glocks are nearly being given away at $260 or so.

Why a Glock? They work, and tend not to be fucked up by previous owners. There are less people taking files to the guts of the Glock than their 1911, Highpowers, etc. They are common and extremely easy to service. There are a great deal of cheap Beretta 96 .40 cal hand guns out there, but if a novice has a mechanical issue, it is so much harder to work on.

Someone out there is going to advocate some C&R or surplus gun like a CZ82 , PA63, or a Star/Lama, etc. Now some of these guns are great guns. Some of them have broken and sitting in a box for five decades. You are still generally talking at least $200 for many of these, and if it breaks or doesn’t work it you might not be able to get replacement parts. Many of these old blued steel guns can rust easily and require more maintenance than a Glock. Maintenance that a novice or spend thrift is not likely to do.

I could go on and on. If someone can buy a used Glock for $300, isn’t their life worth that cost?

They are still going to need to get some ammo, some training, time to practice. Buying a gun is just a very small part of the process of defending ones self and others.

Now once they have that Glock, they need to buy a Colt 6945 and set it up exactly like mine, the one above. Just joking. From the self defense side of things, many would not have need of a long arm. It irks me when people recommend a pump shotgun to the novice for home defense. While the shotgun has nearly countless merits, it is larger and heavier and most importantly a two handed weapon. Watch a novice holding a bad guy at gunpoint with a shotgun while trying to use their cell phone to contact the police. It is a mess. A shotgun will not easily be able to use it in a compact car to defend ones self. The point I am trying to get to is that a pistol is handier and most importantly, concealable. For the person worried about self defense that only has one gun, a pistol is what makes the most sense in our modern society.

There are tons of cool things out there, and plenty of cheap stuff out there, giving countless options. There are many good choices out there, but a used Glock handgun is just a very simple, less expensive, and easy way to get off on a good start.

Noveske Taking Marketing Tips From Highpoint?

In the current fad of exploitation gun marketing pioneered by PSA, Noveske has now apparently tried their hand at appealing to youths.Or anyone with an ironic sense of humor I suppose. Not to be outdone by the “yeet canon” produced by America’s most respected gun maker, Noveske now gives us the “ghetto blaster”.

sigh..

Their new pistol AR offering I am sure will sell well to the Noveske devotees. What do you get for your $2,550.00 yankee green backs?

Barrel

     Length– 7.94” 5.56 or 300BLK with 1/7 twist 

     Gas Block– Lo-Pro, .750, pinned to barrel

     Barrel Extension w/extended feed ramps

     Flash Hider-Q Cherry Bomb Muzzle Brake

Upper Receiver

     Model– Gen 4 precision machined billet receiver from 7075-T6 w/extended feed ramps featuring anti-rotation interface with handguard

     Finish– Hardcoat type III anodizing, with Cerakote ceramic coating (Armor Black, Sniper Gray, or Bazooka Green) 

     Charging Handle– Noveske Marked Geissele Super Badass Charging Handle 

     Q Bolt & Carrier Group

Lower Receiver

     Model– Gen 4 precision machined billet receiver from 7075-T6 featuring ambidextrous controls  Ambi bolt release, Norgon Ambi magazine release, and Ambi 60 degree STS safety selector

     Finish– Hardcoat type III anodizing, with Cerakote ceramic coating (Armor Black, Sniper Gray, or Bazooka Green) 

     Trigger– Geissele SD-E

Handguard (options)

 NHR-7” (Keymod or M-LOK) Free Floating Handguard

Furniture

Stock-Q PDW Pistol Brace

    Grip- Magpul K2

Accessories

  Magpul MBUS Pro Folding Sights

     One 30 Rnd. Magazine

Yeah, I’m not its market, Never have liked or cared about anything Noveske makes. They never impressed me personally. But to each their own. I’m sure it will work fine, and it has some nice features. But if you think this is the ultimate solution to some gap in your battery then it’s your lucky day. It even comes in 300Blk Out! ( AKA 300whisper, AKA 7.62×39 slightly improved, AKA 30-30WCF with match bullets)