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Inland MFG M1 Carbine Part 2 Accuracy Testing

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This is the final part in the T&E of the Inland MFG M1 Carbine.  In case you have no read the pr4evious posts, I examined the gun closely with plenty of close up pictures and tested the carbine for reliability in mud, snow, water and ice.  Now at last is the accuracy portion of the review.

I fired the gun with a few different loads but no match ammo since I could not get my  hands on any  in an amount that would have mattered. I tested the gun using ball, which is what I think most buyers will be using and a federal soft point rounds that for some reason I marked as a hollow point on the record targets  I have no idea why I marked it incorrectly as HPs unless it is just out of habit.    Rest assured the  target groups marked as “HP” is a mistake and I actually fired the Federal jacketed soft point load.

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First I fired the traditional  25 yard group for establishing a zero. I used five rounds of ball.

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I then moved out to 50 yards and  75 yards.  This 50 yard  10 round group is with the mentioned Fed SOFT POINT load. The carbine really shot well with this load.  I believe this load is the ammo that was used by the PD in the town over in WV across the river from me. The ammo was provided by a police officer and came from the department so it may well be the load Federal intended as a LE or home defense load. It does shoot well in the carbine despite the ammo I used being at least 10 years old that I know of.

The next two pictures are of another 50 yard group and a group fired at 75 yards  with the same ammo.  I did not fire a 100 yard group due to the fact that my eyes have a hard time with the iron sights on M1 carbines   for some reason.  I can shoot them just fine for general use, but I really struggle with them when it gets down to taking precise shots in an attempt to fire groups for accuracy testing  I have never done well with them  and felt it unfair to shoot much further and not know if it was me or the gun.  However 75 yards is close to 100 enough to get some kind of idea of what it may do.

I did fire the gun past these shorter distances.  I set up the steel target at 300 yards while shooting it when it first arrives.  My Dad was with us and before shooting I announced i was going to take some shots at 300 yards with the gun.  Everyone chuckled and said “yeah right”. i then asked them if they wanted to bet 20 bucks on me being able to do it.   Fortunately for them, they would not take the bet because I found it very easy to hit a roughly man sized target , ( head to belt buckle) at 300 yards with the carbine.

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The target  is a little hard to see in this picture. But it is in the center of the road.  I used a home made tripod to get over the grass but none of the shots used a sand bag or laying prone.  I then stood up and made a few hits off hand.  The carbine is capable for shots most modern rifle shooters can not make with  308 rifles or more sad to say.

The Inland Carbine is a handy well made and faithful reproduction of the original. It is much nicer and better made than its competition out there making some really rough looking M1 carbines.  You can also get the M1A1 paratrooper version of the carbine and a cut down “Advisor” model like used by US troops in Vietnam.

If you like WW2 weapons and history and want a carbine that you can shoot heavily without any guilt, or just want a small handy “trunk gun” this would be a good choice. I would certainly pick it over a SKS or nagant.   The rifle comes with the 15 round mag but obviously will take the 30 round magazines.   The M1 could be the answer for those people in certain states that governments that have been confusing their role with those of communist states.  Or for those who want something not as scary and evil looking as an evil black rifle.

Over all I am very impressed with it. I admit that everyone who was with me during the first testing had major doubts and rolled their eyes at it when I said I was going to do some of the stuff with it I ended up  doing, but they became believers. A lot of preconceived biases got busted by this gun.  it certainly impressed me.  This Inland M1 will perform above and beyond for you within its envelope and a little beyond.

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US&S M1911A1

The  M1911A1 pictured below is special.  it is an all matching US&S  M1911A1.  It is in beautiful shape.  Finding one like this would take a very long time and cost a small fortune.   In this case, it was restored.   The gun was a effort of love by the owner of Moore Militaria  ( www.mooremilitaria.com )  It was restored over time and  when all parts had be found, sent to George Rhogar for that beautiful finish and  going over all the stamping and cartouches, giving them a more defined look and bringing them back after years of arsenal refinishing had worn them  down.

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No the piece is not original.  Since it is not factory new and argument could be made it has much if it s value hurt by this restoration project.   But not to me.  I think it was a worthy effort and the results speak for themselves.  It would take a very keen and astute eye to determine this gun to be a restoration.   I personally do not have a problem with this kind of thing.   Where else would you be able to have one of these with all the matching parts and not feel bad about shooting it?      Below are more pictures of this M1911 courtesy of Trey Moore.   He kindly sent me these pictures after telling me about it yesterday. So thanks to him for these.  If you like Vietnam era gear and uniforms, check out his website. Everyone could use a set of vietnam tiger strips made in the proper pattern and in the correct cut.

Long Range Data Made Easy

When I and my friends first started our long range shooting career we learned to have handy little cheats with us for faster hits.  This is certainly nothing new and it continues to this day in a different form.   Before there was hand held computers and all manner of technology to help  make the long range hits, there was writing stuff down.  We had an assortment of little charts and such with each rifle with data for each one.   Over time  my ideas and views on effective field marksmanship at long range changed.    I came to think of effective  long range hits in the way I do now i.e.  a man’s chest or from belt buckle to crown.

With that in mind and the fact that   308 Winchester loads with a 24-26 inch rifle using 175 and 168 HPBT  are very close to a certain point , and  77 grain  5.56 match ammo in a 20 inch barrel is  very , very close to the 175gr  308 load, it was easy to work with all three and keep the info in my head.

Early on my partner and I developed a chart for the 175 grain HPBT match load. seen below.

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The chat starts with a 100 yard zero and goes out to 1,000 yards in 25 yard increments using 1/4 MOA value adjustments.  The chart was made using  a 26 inch barrel.  The thing that is so useful with this chart and the reason we still use it to this day is that it can also be used to get you on to a man sized target using the 175gr and 168 gr 308 load and the 5.56mm with 20 inch barrel using 77 grain match.   It is not perfect with the other loads and will not be perfect. But you will get on target very quickly using this chart.   It is also useful for  556 loads using 75 grain and 69 grain match loads  . Now you have to use come common sense here when using it in some cases. For instance , if you are using  77 grain match ammo, the chart will not match up to you 16inch carbine barrel. But, it will be close and, very close within the shorter range  DOPE.    You can tweak it as you see fit to match your gun and load. Or you can use it like we do and leave it as is and after using it you will know how your rifle/optic works with it.  I feel in this way it is the most useful but if you can use this as a “get you on target ” starting point, then refine it, all the better.   As I said above. with a 26 inch barreled 308 with 175 grain ammo, you can use this chart to get on a man sized target  from 100 to 1.000.

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The next chart shown above may or may not be well known to you  by now if you are a long range shooter and  have used the Mil-dot  optics that are  very common.   I will be honest and tell you up front I never bothered, nor had any desire to learn  the  formula and all that stuff to use the mildots for ranging.  I found this chart to be a lot faster and handier and it did not require me to use the dreaded math.  The most work my Mildots do ( yes I do still use them) is for hold off/hold over points.   I was always reasonably good at judging range by eye or smart enough to bring a dedicated range finder.  This chart however, is very handy if you still want to use them the way they were intended but without all that brain work.  I would advise printing this out and laminating it and keeping it with your data book regardless of how much you intend to use it.

Another  chart not unique to me or the buys, but handy anyway.  The M118 data is not as handy as it once was. The M118 load was not all that great even in its day. But the charts still have use if you have a supply you use or they match a load you may be using.

The moving target lead  leads are particularly useful help when learning.

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The next chart  was made to convert yards and meters.  We had some WW2 range finders that read in meters but we always think and work in yards.  It made things a bit easier for us.

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This illustration for judging wind is a photocopy from Maj. John Plaster’s  excellent  long range and sniping manual “The Ultimate Sniper”.  It is just as handy now as it has ever been  if you do not have all the tech to figure it out for you or want to learn it the old traditional way like we did.

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And last another chart for  Lake City  M118 match loads in MOA  and 1/4 MOA value adjustments.  It is pretty much ancient info by now.  But it does illustrate for you how useful the first chart made by us for our use that  I posted. You can see how close the data matches.

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This info is very useful if you are learning to shoot longer ranges.  Especially if you do not have the money to start buying up the mini computers that are becoming standard now a days.  The come up charts WILL get you on target and depending on your gun and load, it may put you on a near dead zero.  Not accounting for reading wind, the first chart always will produce a first round hit for us and it has been shown to and given to many new budding LR shooters to help them get on target at ranges beyond 600 yards when they had no idea  how to get on target otherwise.

Keep in mind your gun and optic may run out of adjustment for these ranges given in the chart if you do not have a long range base and optic.  A standard optic for general hunting or use under 400 yards will most likely not let you come up enough to get on. So you have to start out with at the very least something like the Leupold long range canted base.

Print these out and laminate them and try them out if you have always wanted to try long range but did not really know how to start.  If you have no real interest in precision rifles and long range, print them out anyway and use them for your AR15 and use it to test your black rifle for longer ranges. With the help these provide you will most likely surprise yourself with what you can do and how easy it is. when some one else has done the work for you!

 

If It Saves Just One Life!.. Unless It's You Gun Owners

If it saves just one child’s life, isn’t it worth it?   We keep hearing that along with that other old chestnut ; “No one is gonna take your guns”.   The side of peace and tolerance  is just trying to save lives.

Except that is just not true.  They hate you. They hate me.  It is not about saving any one’s life. They hate us and our way of life. They hate our values and they are willing to kill, or have the state kill us. to get what they want.     The following are some screen shots taken from the Facebook page “Death Threats From Gun Control Advocates” and  post just like these and worse are posted  hourly and sometimes by the minute depending on the 24 hour news cycle.

These people are not just fellow citizens with a different political opinion. They see us as  people who need to be suppressed and destroyed.    None of these are made up or edited.  As I said, they are screen shots from real people.   Read them and think about that this election.

 

Inland MFG M1 Carbine & M1911 Mud& Frozen Water Torture Test

IF you have been reading us for the past 6 months you have seen the ongoing testing and review of the Inland MFG  M1911A1 and M1 carbine.  You can find the reviews using the search feature.  As an aside to those on going tests, today weather conditions gave us the chance to do little else other than abuse fire arms since it was so cold and raining our targets would melt away after being soaked in a matter of a few minutes.

We used the huge standing mud/water hole that was frozen over night to toss the guns in and see what happens.

 

First  the much maligned M1 carbine. Known the world over for being as feeble against the elements  as  tissue paper.

 

Next us was the Inland M1911A1 clone.   Everyone knows only a glock would work under such conditions.

As you can see. both did fine.  I admit I thought  the M1 carbine in the sludge and me kicking mud over it was giving it more than it could reasonably be expected to handle. But it did just great.    Shooting down myths of certain guns being unreliable and the myth of certain guns being super indestructible does get tiresome and redundant. But it is still necessary these days as much as it ever was.   Especially with the 1911.   So many companies make the 1911 now, and very few of them actually make good ones the way they are supposed to be made .  The result is poorly made 1911s that those looking for a reason to claim its not reliable find that reason in those many lesser companies who cut corners or just do not care.   Inland has proven to my satisfaction that they indeed make a good GI  spec 1911.