All posts by Shawn

Street Robberies And You

Today’s  post is all copy/paste from a write up a fellow did on Arfcom some years ago.  It began a thread with a lot of discussion.  It is one of the best threads on  in the years I have spent  as a member of the website.     Several times over the years I have emailed and IM’ed the author  for purposes of reposting here and have never gotten a response either way.   With that in mind I am sure he would rather as many people as possible  read this and I will post a link to the thread.


By BurnedoutLEO

Lately in GD we have had two different board members find themselves looking down the barrel of a gun along with the GF of another ARFCOMMER in street robberies. Also Blitz308 got shot all to pieces last year.

While many say it is better to be lucky than good, no one is lucky every time. In this post I am going to attempt to provide some insight into street encounters. Other may have different viewpoints. I am not here to argue. I will say some of the comments I have seen posted in the threads about this sort of matter make me realize that while some ARFCOMMERS are clearly street veterans others are not. This is really for those who are not.


First, my info. I worked in the street of one of America’s most violent, dangerous cities for 15 years. I usually worked in the worst part of that city. I spent 15 years in patrol. I liked patrol. It was wild. Most of the time I worked in areas covered in ghetto. By that I mean large housing projects combined with run down slum housing. I have worked all shifts. Later I became an investigator including a robbery investigator. I have spent countless hours in interrogation rooms talking to hold up men. I know them. I am still an investigator but have quit playing the Robbery game because my family was starting to forget what I looked like.

The Enemy

Some may object to me calling hold up men “the enemy”. You can call them whatever you like. I can assure you however they are as deadly an enemy as you will find anywhere but the battlefield. Even many soldiers probably lack the viciousness and utter disregard for life most hold up men possess.

No one wakes up in the morning one day and decides to become an armed robber. It is a gradual process that requires some experience and desensitizing. Before a man will pick up a gun and threaten to kill people who have done him no harm in order to get their usually meager possessions he has to get comfortable with some things.

He has to get used to seeing others as objects for him to exploit. He has to accept he may be killed while robbing. He has to accept the felony conviction for Robbery will haunt him all his life. He has to accept he may need to kill a completely innocent person to get away with his crime.

This is a process that starts with stealing candy at the corner store as a child. It progresses through bigger property crimes that may also involve violence. But one day G gets tired of selling his stolen property for nothing and decides it would be better to steal cash. Cut out all that tiresome sales stuff.

Keep in mind many petty thieves, auto burglars, residential and commercial burglars, paper thieves, and hustlers will get to that point and decide not to become armed robbers. Most will. It is a special group of outliers who decide threatening to kill people for a few dollars is the way to go.

Once a man starts armed robbing he has crossed a line most won’t. Don’t forget that when you are looking these bastards in the eye. Their decision to kill you is already made. Your life means nothing to him. Only his does. His sole motivation for not killing you is he doesn’t want a murder case. He has already accepted he may pick one up though.

We hunt hold up men around the clock once they are identified. We send teams of fire breathing fence jumper/door kickers to find them. We will bring their mother to the office and convince her she is going to jail if we don’t have Junior in our office in an hour. We have her call her son crying hysterically for him to turn himself in before she is arrested and held without bond as a material witness and her home seized for harboring him. Most of the time they won’t. Fuck their own momma.

We will hit all Juniors friends and family’s houses. We make it so no one will harbor him. He is so hot no one will let him in their house or even talk on the phone with him. We put money on him so he knows he is right to be betrayed and set up. We do this because of one thing.

That thing is they WILL kill someone if they keep robbing. That is why the city is willing to pay all the overtime. They don’t want the murders. Think about that when you see Junior coming. The more robberies he does the closer he is to killing someone. Maybe you.

The guys who hit you on the street are gang members. They are Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords, Crips, Sureonos, many others. They do not see themselves as part of society. The street is all they know. They don’t expect to live long or stay out of prison. They take a delight in your fear and suffering. They are warped individuals for the most part. They can be extremely dangerous.

One time we were locking up a hold up man and having a conversation about how they target their victims. I was saying they pick easy ones, another guy was saying they preferred easy ones but would take anybody.

I pointed out a uniform Officer there was an NFL size guy to that hold up man. Frankly the dude was a monster. I asked hold up man if he would rob him. He said “If I needed the money”.


Chances are good you are a law abiding person except for maybe a little light weed smoking and maybe driving a little drunk every once in a while. Most of your life you have been taught to be nice and don’t point guns at people. You are the exact opposite of your enemy who was taught just the opposite. Remember a lot of street life is like prison life. Who’s the man is everything. Violence is the currency of the street.

You do not possess total disregard for the lives of others and do not want to kill anyone. You are concerned about the ramifications of shooting someone. Your family, your possessions and finances on the line. Your enemy has none of these concerns.

The laws that keep you from carrying your gun in bars or where ever mean nothing to your enemy. Your reluctance to shoot someone works to is advantage. His greater experience in street violence and the element of surprise is on his side.

Everyone should call their local FBI office and get a copy of Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted. When it first came out it was ground breaking because it demonstrated to academics and other elites what street police knew all along. What did it show in interviews with cop killers? Nice guys finish dead. That’s right. Most of those offenders commented that the Officer they killed set himself up to be killed because of reluctance to use force early in the encounter.

You can probably find it on line now. A lot of the victim Officers were a lot like a lot of other people, normal people. They were the opposite of their enemy.

Am I advocating becoming the enemy? No. I am saying the person who is robbing you has certain traits, attitudes, and background. That is all.

Dynamics of Encounters

Hold up men target victims on the street in an impulsive, opportunistic manner. They see someone and make a quick judgment call on whether to rob them. The time between when you are targeted and they are on you isn’t long. Therefore, situational awareness is everything.

If you see G coming you are in good shape. If you don’t you will be the victim who says “He came out of nowhere”. No he didn’t. There are many tricks to watching out but simply watching your back is the main thing. Watch your back. If you do it enough it becomes second nature and you won’t even realize you are doing it.

Watching out is great but unfortunately many self defense courses stop there. You have parked you car in a well lit area, are aware of your surroundings, and looky here, here comes three guys across the parking lot and they start to kind of fan out.

When you lock eyes with G the very first thing you need to do it indicate you have a weapon. It doesn’t matter if you do or not. If you are a woman put your gun hand in your purse and keep it there. If you are a man fan your shirt or coat tail with your gun hand. Make it clear to dude you are mentally prepared to draw and making sure your gun is clear. This will many times result in an about face by dude. It is the single best robbery avoidance tactic IMHO.

Not long ago I was walking down the sidewalk in my town to go get my car. I was holding a folding chair in my gun hand. A car slow rolled past me with 4 heads in it. The guys in the back seat turned around as they went by looking at me. They went a little farther and U turned in the street.

Here they come back. As they started to slow down I looked at them with as contemptuous a look as I could muster and switched the chair to my left hand and flicked my shirt tail with my right hand. They just drove on mad dogging me.

In another case I was at a Christmas party and walked a girl to her car about 3 am. As we said our good-byes two guys were walking across the parking lot. One went behind a dumpster. I though he was peeing. He came out from behind the dumpster with a bottle.

As they got closer I stepped clear of that girl and unzipped my jacket at those two guys. When I did the guy threw down the bottle and they walked by cussing at me. If someone challenges you after you indicate you are armed say “I don’t have a gun”. Then they will know you do.

Here is an opposite story. A girl my brother knows was walking her dog when a guy approached her. She was polite. Mistake. He talked to her about the dog and said she had pretty hair and reached out and touched her hair. She did not slap his hand down or aggressively object. Mistake. He asked her if her dog bit and she said “No”. At that time he slapped the shit out of her, drug her into a wooded area, and raped her.

The answer in the street is always “No”. Can I ask you something? No. Do you have a cigarette? No. Can you tell me what time it is? No. The answer is always “No”. Don’t be nice. Stop the encounter as soon as it starts.

When to draw

Despite warnings I often see on the Net I have yet to encounter an instance in which a hold up man called the police to report his intended victim threatened to shoot him. Thugs do not want to come into contact with the police. They may already be wanted or realize chances are good they have been identified in a recent robbery. Or what ever. They are not going to call the police if you draw on them.

Supposed two guys are approaching you in a parking lot and do the classic fan out maneuver. You indicate you have a weapon by clearing your gun hand and fanning your jacket at them. They are not discouraged. DRAW!

I am not saying you should pull your gun out, assume a Weaver stance, and scream “That’s close enough motherfuckers!” What I am saying is draw your gun and hold it beside your leg as you start to move to cover. I am very fond of telephone poles. Anything will do though. They will see this. They will remember they have to be somewhere else. They will not call the police.

Then you can just put your gun back in the holster and go back to whatever you were doing like nothing happened. Why? Because nothing did happen. A happening is when shots are fired.

Do not hesitate to draw. If you are somewhere you are supposed to be and someone appears who is not supposed to be there like a closed business show him the end of your gun. Could it be Mother Teresa looking for her lost cat behind your closed business? No it is some motherfucker up to no good. He won’t call the police to report he was prowling a location when a guy ran him off.

When to shoot

The time to shoot is immediately upon seeing his weapon. You are not a police man who has to try to arrest the guy. No need to scream at him. No exposure while you yell for him to drop the gun.

In deer hunting the experienced hunter takes the first good shot. May not be the perfect shot but it never is. Novices pass up a doable shot waiting for a better shot and then the deer is gone. Take the first good shot you are offered. Hopefully your alertness and hostile cues will prevent you ever having to fire. But once you see his weapon, shoot.

If a guy is coming at you with a gun in his hand shoot him. Shoot him right then. If you don’t shoot first you may not shoot at all. I have known more than one person who was shot and received life changing injuries and also shot their attacker. Their only regret was not shooting sooner. Like Bill Jordan said “Nothing disturbs your enemy’s aim like a slug delivered to the belt buckle area”.

Guns and weapons

The handgun is the best weapon you can carry easily. I understand it is not always possible to have one due to laws, restrictions, whatever. I am not telling anyone to disregard laws about carrying weapons. Each person has to decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. I will say there is no substitute for a pistol when you need one.

Also if you can not be trusted with a pistol after a few drinks you can’t be trusted with a pistol period. Booze is liquid bad judgment no doubt but it shouldn’t make you into a damn moron. If you are a moron sober I don’t know what to tell you.

Types of guns and ammo are always debated and probably always will be. I have seen people shot with all common calibers. My conclusion is if you hit someone between the collar bone and the tip of their ribs three times with anything, they are handled. Bigger is better but something is better than nothing. Get your front sight on his shirt and stay on him as long as he is standing with whatever gun you have.

Just have a gun with sure fire ammo. Draw early and fire immediately upon seeing his weapon. That course of action is about all you can do to up your odds of ending things favorably. Guns like the Ruger LC9, SIG 239, Glock 26/27 are examples of guns small enough to carry but with enough power and capacity to be useful. Do not be afraid to use a French Lebelle if that is the only gun you have. A gun is a gun. I like a Glock 19.


We all want the best training. It can be expensive if you are having to pay for it and it can be hard to find the time to do it. There is a whole lot of BS out there. What can you do? First, pistol handling is not rocket surgery. If you will learn the basics and practice on your own you can be fine. Smooth draw, quick pairs, reload. If you know those things well you can be OK.

I know a young man who shot down two hold up men in 2010 at very close range while he and his GF were walking home from the store. He in Wyatt Earp like fashion ignored the fire coming from the gunman and killed him and wounded his accomplice. He nor his GF were injured. He like many was willing to give them the money until he picked up on nonverbal cues that because of his GF they were not quite satisfied with the money. He had a Glock 27.

He had only the most basic of training in gun handling but did do some draws and some dry fire a couple times a week and live fired maybe once a month. That basic skill combined with knowing what to do was enough. He shot at the first possible moment despite having let the guys get the drop on them. When the gunman turned his head because a car drove by that was the opening. A split second is a long time sometimes.

Work on some one hand shooting at close range. That is a skill not as popular as it once was and you want to use two hands when you can. Often you can find yourself doing something with your off hand though so be able to shoot with one hand out to 5 yards or so.


If it comes to pass you are forced to shoot someone do not feel bad. When the police come just tell them a guy threatened you with deadly force and you were forced to fire. I know there are bad police out there in some parts of the country who don’t support self defense. I can’t help you with that.

Do not talk to them until you have your attorney present. Now most young guys don’t have an attorney on retainer and you may have no idea who to call. That is OK. You will figure it out but in the mean time don’t talk about what happened other than to say you were forced to fire. You don’t have to be an asshole just remember wait for your attorney.

Hopefully you will not give a statement for a couple days. Remember if you are put in jail that doesn’t mean you are charged. Most places can hold you 48 or 72 hours on a felony before charging you or letting you go. Breath deep and get an attorney.

Expect to never get your gun back. You may get it back one day but maybe not. Do not buy expensive guns for the street. Buy yourself a nice sporting gun if you want a nice gun. Keep your street guns basic. The factory Model 10 Smith and the GI 45 have done a lot of work over the years and aren’t fancy.


We all live in different worlds. My world is filled with felons and gang members. Violence is common place. No one would be surprised if one of their friends called and said they shot a hold up man at a place of business or parking lot. In the past when I made calls the fact that the guy who is beating his GF is also on parole for 2nd degree murder flavored my world.

You may live in a smaller, less violent place where shootings seldom occur and it would be a rare to shoot a hold up man. I envy you and will be moving to a place like your town as soon as I can.

But be advised no matter where you are a hold man is going to be about the same. Whether he is a home boy or a guy who just exited the interstate into your town and needs some quick money. He is going to have a vicious streak and no regard for your life. Treat him like he treats you.

Giving them the money, doing what they say, all that may work but there is no guarantee. If you have never read Jeff Cooper’s book The Principles of Personal Defense I suggest you order a copy immediately. It is a short book but summarizes a lot of important things.

Last year we had a trial here regarding an armed robbery that occurred. Three or four guys took a young couple from a parking garage near a college out by some railroad tracks where they raped, shot, and beat them. Their lives will never be the same.

The lesser thugs all turned on the trigger man at trial. The trigger man’s statement in the paper was after all that had happened he felt like he was a victim. Think about that. That is the mindset you are up against.
In addition to the original post some other active police members added some  further thoughts. These from John_wayne777.

You can’t understand the way they think because they aren’t human. I say that with every ounce of sincerity I can muster. They are not human. They are best thought of as an alien species. They do not share or appreciate anything approaching a value system you or I would recognize. Their formative years were spent in an environment that was utterly alien to anything you or I ever lived in. As an example, yesterday I attended a lecture by William Aprill that dealt with what he termed “Violent Criminal Actors”, essentially the people who would be classified as sociopaths. He told the story of a 15 year old boy who got in a fight on a basketball court and lost. When the boy’s mother found out that he lost, she handed him a pistol and told him “WE don’t go out like that!”…and the boy returned to the basketball court and killed the other kid that beat him up. When Aprill did social work he would often stop and take a look at a neighborhood before a visit to a home. On one visit he was in an urban area and he noticed a group of young kids (8-10 years old) that were playing on a basketball court that didn’t have any hoops or backboards. The game they were playing involved grabbing one kid by the scruff of the neck, forcing him to his knees, then making the finger gun to the back of his head and mocking blowing his brains out execution style. After each repetition of this game the kids laughed hysterically and did it again.

Would your mother hand you a gun and direct you to go kill someone? When you were running around in your Tom Sawyer/Huck Finn years were you basically rehearsing street executions? I’m going to guess the answer to that is a big “No.”

That’s why you don’t understand criminals…because you’re thinking of them as human. Think of them as an alien species that just happens to be vulnerable to gunfire. They don’t think like you. They’ll become highly insulted if you don’t instantly cooperate in a robbery and feel that they are perfectly justified in killing you because…and I am not making this up…you’re the one who fucked up. They were minding their own business pulling off a perfectly routine robbery and you fucked it all up by not doing what you were told. That means it’s your fault, and you’re the one who was evil. Sociopaths consider themselves to be a breed apart from the rest of humanity. The rest of the people on this planet are nothing more than livestock to them. They have no more appreciation for human life than we have for the life of a bug when we stomp on it. In fact, they actually enjoy victimizing other people. They’ve done surveys of these guys and asked them about motivations for committing crimes and the answers range from giving them a sensation of power to actually giving them a feeling of accomplishment. You know how you felt when you graduated high-school or when you managed to get a raise? That’s how these guys feel when they cave somebody’s head in with a shovel.

From Blitz308’s AAR thread….which everybody should read…:

“Most violent criminals have been predators for a long time. They’ve actually developed a fairly sophisticated sense for what prey acts like and the characteristics of people who have fangs. They can also pick up on subtle body language cues that others might miss…like members of a small group of people all looking at one guy signaling unconsciously that he’s most likely the guy with a plan. A bad guy can be sophisticated enough to pick that up. In fact, it’s something that retired police officers or off-duty cops can encounter as people who know them can look to them in a bad situation betraying their badge.

Some bad guys react to that by fleeing. Some react to that by getting violent. You never know which you’ve got in front of you ahead of time.

Bad guys test and prod with all sorts of schemes and behaviors they’ve picked up from observation or from their criminal brethren whom they often team up with for the purposes of victimizing people. (Like the scumbag who shot Blitz did with that fat slag) To believe they are all mindless idiots who have no skill or sophistication is foolhardy. Nearly every violent criminal is or has been at one point a con man in another criminal endeavor…playing people’s emotions like a fiddle. Witness the number of bad guys who turn from attempted murder into blubbering beggar if the tables get turned. It’s not remorse…it’s a strategy designed to work on people who have a functional conscience like most of their prey has. They seared their conscience long ago.

The incident with the girl who was raped by the bad guy who touched her hair is a perfect example of that. He used a ruse to close distance (the ruse is a common tactic of street thugs), crossed boundaries to see what her reaction could be…all sizing her up for assault. He saw the girl and in that moment decided he’d see if he could rape her. That’s how opportunistic these motherfuckers are. Don’t be nice or polite to people who look like thugs. Don’t be nice or polite to people who come at you while you’re all alone.

Example: There is a fellow out there by the name of William Aprill who has spent his adult life studying criminals as a psychologist. In one of his lectures I attended, he related that criminals have been surveyed on various things including why they commit violent crimes. One of the top responses for why they commit a violent act was a “feeling of accomplishment.”

Now that’s abstract, so let me anchor it in reality: Stop for a moment and think about how you felt when you graduated high school…or graduated college…or got that promotion…or bought your first house…or finished that difficult project. Something difficult that took you time and effort and that challenged your abilities, the completion of which signaled to you achievement of a goal or attainment of a status you’d been hoping for over an extended period of time. Do you have that feeling in mind? Good.

That’s how a bad guy feels when he bashes somebody’s skull in with a fucking shovel.”


Engagement in BaQubah, Iraq Nov, 14, 2004

Today we have a  guest post from  friend of the website  Max  writing about his experience in Iraq.

Engagement in BaQubah, Iraq

Nov, 14, 2004


We were rabbits.  That was our job.  Every morning we would travel the MSR (Main Supply Routes) and try and get AIF (Anti Iraqi Forces) to detonate IEDs on our HMMWV convoy.  If they waste their munitions on us in the morning, then the supply trucks had a better chance to make it to their destinations.  Plus, if they engaged us, we were prepared for engagement with a QRF Bradley platoon at the ready if we need them.

Our Lieutenant was new to our platoon.  He was a finance officer just transferred in from Kirkuk so he can get the ever coveted ‘combat experience’ that can really make or break an officer’s career.

We had been in country for 10 months and today was the final day of Ramadan.  Earlier that morning we had already had an engagement.  A few IEDs exploded as we travelled down a highway that I can’t recall the arbitrary name we assigned to it.  One of our vehicles had taken a bit of damage to a tire, but we closed the distance and engaged the enemy.  Which meant we had to wait around for another platoon to take the wounded enemy fighters to FOB Warhorse.  After releasing the wounded people that were only minutes earlier trying to kill us we receive a radio call notifying us that someone had called in to the hotline saying that a large group of men were carrying RPGs and AK-47s.


This is a call we received often.  Occasionally, you would engage the enemy, but most of the time you just drove around looking and finding nothing.  With one vehicle down (we dropped the damaged vehicle off at the Iraqi Police station to repair the damage to the tire) we took three vehicles and headed to the location given to us.


This time was different.  As soon as we rounded the corner the women in their black robes all started running.  I was in the gunner’s hatch manning the 240b.  I lightly tapped the Lieutenant with my foot and told him, “Here it comes, sir!”


The only thing I heard him say was “Here comes what?”.  After that I gazed down the street and identified an individual turning around and lifting an RPG.  He fired the weapon and I could hear the RPG round skip across the pavement.  The rocket propelled grenade skipped under all three of our vehicles, finally popping up behind us before detonating.  Being in the lead vehicle, I spun the 240b around and began firing controlled bursts of 3-5 rounds at the individual that fired the RPG.  He dropped quickly.

This is the moment when time started to slow down.  As the driver hammered the gas and we began to pick up speed I started looking down the alleys.  They were all full of cars with the trunks open.  I could see the RPG launchers, RPG rounds, RPKs, and AK-47s spilling forth from the open trunks of the standard orange fender taxi cabs that are all over Iraq.  These guys meant business.

It was our luck that we came up from behind the ambush that was being prepared.  Another individual with an AK-47 raced across the street.  I fired and missed.  Out of ammunition.  I scream for the AG to feed me more ammunition for the 240b as the vehicle slides around the corner.  We are face to face with a guy holding an AK-47.  His face covered by the red and white checkered head scarves typical of the area.  His AK-47 was jammed.  He was slamming the charging handle back and forth trying to clear the jam.  I called for ammunition once again.  Still nothing.  I scream at the driver, “Hit this motherfucker!”  Hit him we did.  The vehicle lurched forward toward the man before us.  I remember his eyes were green, and I thought that was a bit odd for an Iraqi.  I could see his eyes clearly because they widened to the size of saucers when he realized that we were just going to run him down with the vehicle.  The driver slammed directly into the man before us, sending him and the HMMWV through a wall.  The driver backed up, and ran him down again.

Finally fed the ammunition I desperately needed, I reloaded the 240b and the HMMWV was maneuvered around back to the original road we traveled down.  We arrived at the first intersection and stopped, all three trucks taking defensive positions and we quickly set up a 360-degree security.

Another individual wearing what was lovingly referred to as a ‘man dress’ popped around the corner and fired his AK-47 directly at me.  Honestly, I have no idea how he missed me, he was only about 25 meters away from our position.  I didn’t waste any time pulling the trigger and dropping him, dumping a few extra bursts into the body to ensure the threat was removed.

At this time my squad leader called for me to exit the vehicle, and the AG and myself switched places.  I handed two cans of ammunition to the AG in the gunner’s hatch and headed over to my squad leader.  I was the grenadier of the squad, which meant I had the m203 attached to my M-16 (yes, we still used the long musket M-16s at this time).  I was instructed to destroy the vehicles in the alley before us with HE 40mm grenades.

This was where I made my mistake.  My first shot landed directly in the trunk.  No detonation.  We were too close.  A 40mm grenade must travel about 50 meters before it would arm the round to explode.  So, I backed up, fired again.  Still to close.  This round bounced off the wall, off the car, and down the street (unknowingly, the round landed and exploded at the feet of a couple of AIF members severely injuring them.

Also, unknowingly, I had positioned myself directly in the intersection.  I had zero cover.  It was at this moment when I felt the impact to my chest.  The best way I can describe it is this:  take a 6’7” 320lb professional baseball pinch hitter and let him swing full force into your chest.  One moment I was kneeling in the intersection and the next I was laying on my back, bleeding from my neck.  The next thing I knew, I was being dragged behind a wall by my own personal lord and savior, SPC Grive (thanks, man… you really save my ass).  The medic looked at my neck and said I had bullet fragments and plate fragments in my neck.  Honestly, I couldn’t feel any pain, but I could see the blood that covered my IBA and the hole that was now in my IBA.

I quickly got my head back in the game and ran back to my HMMWV to meet up with the driver who was outside the door of the HMMWV engaging the enemy across the street.

“Phil, I don’t want to be here anymore.” I said louder than I wanted to.

“I don’t want to be here anymore, either man.” SPC Philips said.

We now began to engage the enemy with as much firepower as we could.  Everything was so hectic I didn’t even hear the Bradley’s roll up directly behind us.  SPC Philips and myself dropped back a bit and let the Bradley through.  The Bradley placed itself between the HMMWV and the enemy.  Giving us perfect cover.

As the Bradley’s fired, we began to check our magazines, grabbing a few out of the HMMWV to refill the ones that were empty.  It was at this time that the mortars started to fall.  They had already set up a mortar team to engage us – because they knew exactly what we would do.  Stop and make a 360-degree circle to defend.  Worse yet, they were perfectly aimed to air burst above us.  One of the mortars exploded and my left leg felt like it was on fire.  A piece of shrapnel had pierced my calf and sank itself deep.  I fell to the pavement.  SPC Philips pulled my Israeli bandage from my cargo pocket and wrapped my leg up at the point of entry and called for the medic.

The medic didn’t arrive.  He was engaged, so I drug myself across the ground and began to fire from behind the Bradley.  Honestly, at this point I was only firing randomly down the alleyway towards the sound of incoming fire.  I cannot say exactly how long we were engaged by the enemy, but after the Bradley’s arrived, the enemy all quickly exfiltrated.

For the next four hours we kicked in doors and questioned the people that lived in the area.  I turned out that the mosque right across the street had been allowing jihadis to store weapons inside of it.  Not only that, but the jihadis had been recruiting locals to attack us.  We discovered this from one of the women in a rather large house.  She told me that her son was one of the people that had agreed to take up arms against us for the ambush.  I remember telling her, “Lady, your son is probably dead.”  Her response?

“Good.  Kill them all.”

Winchester Model 1897 Riot

I have always loved the Model97.  Just it’s look is iconic.  I doubt any one has made it to adulthood as a gun enthusiast and not seen pictures of Marines in the Pacific, GIs in Vietnam or even some Doughboy in the trenches with a M97.    That isn’t counting all the police units who have used it over the years.   And even in the hands of lowly  Joey Shmoe in the woods and fields for hunting,

The M97 is another  masterpiece from the Master , John M Browning himself.  A more refined and beefed up version of the earlier M1893.  It’s production running from  1897 , Natch, to 1957 with over 1 million made by USRAC, AKA Winchester.  It came in a variety of barrel lengths and in take down and non take down models but offered only in 12 and 16gauge.    On top of that we have seen clones from varies over seas makers since then.

The shotgun is like most in that it feeds from the bottom into the magazine tube and the “pump” is used to cycle the ammo with empties ejecting from the right hand side ejection port.  It does however have an external hammer and a slide does travel reward outside of the action while cocking the external hammer.     If you are not familiar with this, care has to be taken with your grip or you may end up  getting a little love bite from the gun.     Capacity is 5 rounds in the magazine plus  1 in the chamber of an un plugged gun.

The M97 also lacks a disconnector  for the trigger.  Yes that means that as long as you hold the trigger to the rear, and work the action the gun will fire as soon as the action closes and achieves lock up.   The gun can be fired very quickly this way and it is a big thing for guys now a days to want this.  It’s usefulness is arguable though and  in less experienced hands it can be dangerous for the careless.   But then again, what isn’t dangerous when in the hands of the careless? Oh, and the safety is the trigger at half cock.

The saw action in all those ways I mentioned above, and more.  It has certainly qualified as being in any gun hall of fame.    I’m not going to go into its vast detailed history here since everyone and his mother in law has a website somewhere talking about it.   I am going to show how mine shoots.

I fired some 00 bucks and  rifled slugs through the gun only.   My number 4 buck and various other shotgun loads are all 3 inch shells and the old ’97 is a 2-3/4 shell only affair.    Hopefully I will round up some more variety later and edit it into this  and repost  in the near future.

Having an open choke.  I kept it to normal shotgun ranges.   I did intend to fire slugs out to 100 but  there is only so much  the old shoulder can take  from a hard buttplate.

First picture below is  one round of 00 buck at 20 yards.  I fired this at the head of  the target and all but one pellet stayed on the “head” zone.

Above is one round of 00 from 25 yards.    Well within what I would want it to do.    I have noticed though that the federal “military ”  00 buck   full brass buck does not shoot as tight as the  federal low recoil low brass  00 buck load the local police use.   I did not have it on hand today , but in the past the low recoil load shoots excellent in every shotgun I have  used it in.   For a look at that  check out my review of the Inland/Ithaca  trench gun review from last year.  If you are too lazy to do that here is a target fired with the excellent federal low recoil 00 loads  from the other shotgun.   This is pretty standard performance in all shotguns when using this ammo in my experience. It shoots nearly identical in the m97.  The patter in the orange stick is from the shotgun.

You can see how well the low brass/low recoil load shoots even at distances I would  never actually risk shooting at some one with if I were a cop in a urban environment.   I wish I had  some  for this test by I had grabbed the wrong loads before I left sad to say.

Next up was the federal  rifled slug  load.

Above you can see my 3 shot group from 40 yards, off hand.   I really surprised myself because I hate and dread shooting slugs.  I hate shooting them and if I had some other sucker with me I would have made them shoot the slugs as I am wont to do.   The hole that looks like another slug hole is from  the wadding from an earlier shot.   The top left  hole that seems to be a flyer was  a slug I fired from 75 yards as I was finishing up.  I aimed a little higher and since I was off hand and hate firing  12ga slugs , I wasn’t able to  put it into the group from 40 yards.  But I will take it!   I also  fired two  last slugs at the  “head” from  50 yards and was able to keep them nice and tight. This was from a supported position.

The gun is pretty old but it is still very capable  in these modern  times.   It is fast to the shoulder, handles terrific and the action is slick and fast.

Beyond all that is just the plain cool factor. It is a classic and has been something I wanted  for many years.   Mainly since I saw William Holden and his pals wasting people in The Wild Bunch.   A film that obviously has spawned the wild bunch matches in cowboy action shooting.  Those matches have done more than anything to drive up the prices of models and make them harder to find.    Shooters of those matches quickly scoop up any original riot/trench model they can find as well as  longer barreled models for conversion.  Even the Norinco 97 copy  has  become a collectors item more or less.   Even made in China it  is fine gun  if you do run across one  by the way.  Do not hesitate to buy one if you find it and wonder.

The Model 97 Winchester is one of my favorite guns and when I see it and use it I always think of The Wild Bunch.  In fact the two are so intertwined in my mind I sought out the display  at the NRS museum  while in D.C. a few years ago  and took a picture.   The display model is the  gun used by Holden in the film.




More Belt Fed: A Reader Shares His H&K23e

After the last post with videos of me  firing the H&K21   GPMG,  a readers has checked in adding some detail and sending some video of his 5.56mm HK.  After mentioning how I would like to try one in 5.56mm we get the next best thing.

Will,  one of the readers that found us through the Hognose at, (RIP) joined the tet-a-tet in the comment sections and shared some video of his gun in action.

Will’s gun is obviously a newer model configured to be infinitely more useful in a fight in modern times.  You can see the control ability and recoil  from the 556 variant and compare to the videos I posted earlier.


I wanted to edit in to add some  words from Will about the gun  above.

“Shawn, thanks for posting this. Some details on the gun: it’s a Michaels Machines MM23E, which is not quite a true E spec gun.

Most notably, it uses a hybrid barrel that has the E extractor cutout but also the non-E safety mechanism. Both the HK21 and HK21E include a safety mechanism to prevent the gun from firing while the barrel is not locked into the receiver. On the HK21 a small pin sticks out of the rear of the barrel and interfaces with a matching indentation on the bolt face. If the barrel is unlocked, the pin prevents the bolt from going into battery.

On an E gun, a pin sticks out the side of the barrel opposite the barrel handle. When the barrel is unlocked, this pin prevents the charging handle from releasing.

You can use German E barrels on a MM21E or MM23E, but you have to remove the safety pin, which is a little scary. If you fire the gun while the barrel is not locked, it will fly down range and the barrel handle will tear off the front half of the receiver cage as it goes.

Like a real E, you can convert it to 7.62×51 by swapping the bolt, barrel, and feed mechanism, which can be done in a minute or two. German feed mechanisms work fine with the MM guns, supposedly. The bolt group is different, however, since it has a slot and ramp cut into it to actuate the trip lever for transferable sear packs. A real German 21/23E uses a one piece sear/trip lever, and isn’t compatible with a transferable sear.

As for Michaels Machines, owned by Mike Otte, I had a terrible experience, and am still having the occasional issue. They are very expensive guns with long lead times, but mine did not work well out of the box, had a multitude of finish and function issues like a canted front sight that was so far off to the side that I couldn’t get it on paper, and a botched job on my sear install in a 4 position burst pack. My feed mechanism is currently back with Otte since some of the parts are warping or wearing at an unusually high rate and causing jams, almost like the heat treat wasn’t quite right.

If I were to do it all over I’d let TSC build the gun out of a German 21E parts kit and HK91, which would cost twice as much but be as close to the real thing as possible, and undoubtedly work well.

Here’s a picture of the whole gun: 


I always take flak for changing to an AR style stock, but with the riser it gives the correct cheek weld with the optic, and also shortens up the length of pull to a more manageable distance, which brings the center of gravity rearwards to aid with offhand shooting”


H&K 21 General Purpose Machine Gun

Over the weekend   we were able to shoot the HK21 purchased by my friend, a Class 3 dealer.  The HK21 is  a belt fed  light machine-gun based off the G3 rifle made by H&K firing 7.62mm NATO.  It’s been around since 1961 and has seen considerable use in various world armed forces.  One stand out reported use was by US Army Delta Force.  In the past I have even seen pictures of it being fired in Iraq by US Forces at a firing range.

Having fired the full auto G3 several time over the last few years I was a little surprised by just how rough the 21 was.  It has considerable recoil.  While heavier than the G3, the cyclic rate much higher and it is a brute.

I was able to get some hurried video when firing the gun the first day. You can watch below.


on the video below you can see the cross pin that holds the gopro camera in the head mount was vibrated out by the recoil of the gun

Last video.  I did try to stand up and hold the gun with one hand  i.e. Rambo but sad to say the belt kinked on me and it didn’t make for a very compelling video.  Next time I will try with a shorter belt.

Sad to say I did not have time for any kind of accuracy test.  I will have to think up some method to test out its “accuracy” while fired in busts and  semi auto in the future.  I think I still have some of the US Army reduced range machine gun targets.

The gun is a fun. I doubt you needed to be told that though.   It is rough however and there is technique to firing it prone so as not to ruin your shoulder and give yourself a headache.     As a GPMG the gun does have a quick change barrel that i forgot to video a demonstration of.   In coming weeks I will try to attempt a longer instructional video on the weapon for anyone interested.  Comment below if you want to see something like that.  I personally always  worry that videos like that appear as “showing off”  or a “look what I get to play with and you  never will” kind of things.   I wish everyone could own and use MGs etc as a normal part of gun ownership. For those that can’t I  hope maybe to at least  answer questions about it and not  play it up as the ULTIMATE!! experience.

A  class 3  M60 and a STG 44 will be arriving in the next few months and I will do my best to get more entertaining videos of those for everyone.

The Atlas Flush Cup 3.35″ 1913 Rail

For years I had been using a Harris bipod mounted to one of the two factory swivel studs on the free floating handgaurd/tube that is standard on the colt HBAR Elite.   It worked out fine and I really have no complaints.  But  like everyone else these days, all my more higher end rifle accessories are meant to easily  interface with the 1913 rail.    After getting an ATLAS bipod that uses a QD lever mount last year I  kinda wished it was more like the harris,  By that I mean, it came  in a configuration that let it mount to the stud and with an additional part, mount to 1913 rail.

After getting a second ATLAS bipod , my desire to use it on the HBAR Elite just grew stronger.   At the urging of my Dad I started to look for something that would allow it.

I ran across the subject of this post.  The ATLAS bipod mount and ordered it.

The Atlas Flush Cup 3.35″ 1913 Rail will accommodate hole patterns with a center to center spacing of 1.76 – 2.78″ with a relieved base to accommodate curved surfaces. A standard sling stud and sling stud spacer can be used as one fastener or two button head machine screws can be used. NO HARDWARE IS INCLUDED (see P/N 640382) to attach this rail to the forearm of standard rifle stocks. The Atlas Flush Cup 1913 Rail can also be attached to a horizontal surface on the butt section to attach their BT12 or BT13 Precision Rail Monopods. This rail also has a flush cup for that style of sling swivels.

This short section of rail can be ordered curved to fit  the tube, or to fit a more flat traditional forearm.

You simply remove the two factory studs and replace with the longer allen bolts in place.   These two bolts do not come with the part and must be bought separate.  The hole spacing  is pretty common for most factory guns so it shouldn’t be a issue.   You can see that you have some room for adjustment on the part itself.

It also comes  with a flush cup sling swivel hole.  I have come to prefer using the flush cup QD sling swivels  myself.

The part is very well made as you would expect from Atlas.  After installing it and using it I wished I had known about it sooner.  I would have bought and used this part even without the Atlas bipod.  I like the flexibility that comes with a section of rail. This would have let me move my Harris bipods around faster from gun to gun since I already had a picatinny adapter installed on them and had to remove it to use on this rifle.   On top of that It would have allowed me to use my preferred method of sling swivel.   Obviously since it is a 1913 rail, you can use it to mount anything else you may want,  Like a light or laser depending on your needs or position of mounting.


Since I ordered it to be able to use one of my Atlas bipods, that’s what I its used for.   The two mate together perfectly  naturally, is a solid high quality piece of  gear and it just looks nice and tidy.

I am really, really happy with this.  In fact the more I have messed around with it, the more I like it.    My only regret is I did not find out about this part and buy one sooner.

I can give this my highest recommendation.  If you have a precision bolt action rifle or anything that you want to upgrade the front or rear mounting point this is a great choice.   Even better  it was only 19.95.



“Good Guy With A Gun” 2 Heroes Actions & Possible Lessons Learned From Texas Church Attack

If you will permit me to beat a dead horse (and soon to be rotted and  turned to dust ) for a minute here I want to post a bit about the insanity that erupted in TX.

The fellow above,Stephen Willeford  was able to act and be there decisively when the cops , and the feds or the army or the IRS or even Barrack the Benevolent  could not be.   Hearing the attack, he got to his safe and grabbed his AR15 equipped with a red dot.  Not having a loaded magazine, he single loaded some as he was  moving toward the sound of the slaughter.   No word on if the AR had a shoulder thing that goes up or not in for the who are wondering.   He ran out and engaged the maniac.

Stephen Willeford and the  fellow citizen who helped him chase down and cover the killer should be the pictures and names being pasted all over the internet and news.   Their  actions and image are the ones that should become house hold names,  Not the filth that started this thing.   Of course the media  has to post the killers  dull eyed moronic cowardly  face over and over.  We don’t be doing that here.  I am a firm believer that people like that should be denied the attention they wanted and that giving it to them inspired futures idiots.

The Men acted heroically.  They may not think so and  they will no doubt deny it  as the weeks and months past, but they are.  Crowder has an interview with him below. I doubt many of you have not seen it yet.

If you can’t watch video because you are at work,  truth about guns  writes a recap I am going to skip doing.

Sutherland Springs “Good Guy with a Gun” Stephen Willeford: “I Got My AR-15 Out of My Safe . . .” [Video]


There are some lessons to take away from the response of   Mr.Willieford that  any responsible, honest student of self defense should spend some time looking at and thinking of.  It is NOT a criticism of him or his bravery to do an after action analysis.

I know some reading this will think I am being Mr. Obvious and everyone already knows all this and trains and prepares for it, But there is a lot more who don’t.

For instance.

Not having loaded magazines ready to go. Even if it was only one to stick in the back pocket.   It’s sobering to think what could have happened had he ran out engaged the killer  and ran out of ammo before making a lethal  hit.

Having to open a safe to access a firearm in a seconds count- life  or death – stop watch is ticking emergency.    I know this may be something some have to deal with depending on state or country.  I can not imagine not having a minimum of a rife ( carbine) and pistol available to me within seconds in my home.   With a way to loaded mags to support it along with it.     When away from home my vehicle may or may not have access to a long gun and ammo, and of course I carry a side arm with minimum of 2 reloads.

Our hero did everything he could and I’m sure he will doubt his actions and what else he could have done for years to come . I don’t want to add to that on him but you   have to think about these things.  It can happen and you have to be ready to act to save yourself  or others.   Think about where you have stuff and how to get to it as fast and safely as possible.

Ammo selection. We don’t know what our good guy used and while it worked there is no reason not to think about it.  Bad guys are using body armor and more sophisticated “gear” more and more.  Walmart bought  value box ammo in your 556 may not be the best choice.   Of course if you have enough of it and can shoot the target enough times anything can work.   If you haven’t been thinking about it, its time you wake up to the fact you may have to contend with body armor  and the accuracy it takes to shoot smaller targets not covered and do the most damage to that exposed part that you can.

Accuracy.  Many, who think they can actually  can’t make an offhand standing  shot on a head sized target with a red dot at even 50 yards.  That isn’t counting having a heart rate of 400 while some one is about to or is shooting at you.    nothing but center mass practice at 20 yards  and less  just doesn’t cut it anymore.   Yep if you shoot some one with body armor in the chest 30 times,  the target will take notice but you may not have the chance or the time or any number of factors.

Good guy body armor?   Many people have it, including all of us here.  If our hero had it and had time, it would have been wise for him to don it.  That is a huge IF though.  Seconds passing meant more victims.   But  would another death have helped thing if plates or armor had stopped a round from the bad guy?   I feel like the time it took to slip on  at least body armor could have been offset by not having to diddle with a safe  combination lock.   On the other  hand, if maybe, you can act fast and decisively enough on the threat…

On the other hand if  the police show up and you are wearing body armor with a carbine  in your hand    etc..    Not easy or possible to think about once  the maniacs start or a terrorist attacks happen.

Anyone who wants to discuss any of this please do so in the comments and  at some point I will add them into the post. Hopefully we will be able to learn from this and help people act even faster and with more safety in case of future events.    Hopefully some great points can be added from our knowledgeable commenters and we can create something here that may help some people.




Colt Accurized Rifle HBAR ELITE CR6724

Today we are going to take a look at an AR15 made by colt that  is one of the best keep secrets in the gun world.   It’s really a shame that it’s not more well know because it is an excellent precision rifle.

If you didn’t know by the image above, this is the Colt Accurized Rifle.  Also known as the the CARA3 HBAR Elite  according to its roll mark and  Model CR6724 for everyone who works at  Colt or those of us who are obsessive enough to refer to Colts by their internal model numbers.

This may very well be the first time a lot of people will have heard of this model but the fact is, Colt has been making it since around 1997 give or take a year.  I first saw it in that years firearms catalog which I had received via the mail same as I did every year.   On it was a 10x mildot Colt brand target/tactical optic. The optic itself was from a partnership with C-more sights and that year several other Colt/C-more branded optical sights  made their debut to many of us.  The 10X colt/C-more is pictured below. The optic did not come with the rifle but the rifle did come with a B-square mount that properly attached to a picatinny rail and had the correct height  for an AR15.

I don’t own one of these optics and never got to try one but all accounts I have heard of the optic have rated it first class.  Now a days a fixed 10x would not find much favor I’m sure.

At the time, the 6724 was pushed as a factory out of the box rifle ready to go for high power.  It longer barrel perfect for attaching some of the front sights used in the national matches, and the flat top upper  to house a rear finely adjustable rear sight.  If you browse picture from back in the day, you will see a lot of rifles that look almost identical to the 6724 being used  with various sighting systems.    Of  course the ad copy also stated the rifle would make a great varminting or target rifle.  That was certainly a fact.

The barrel is a 24 inch  match stainless steel HBAR ( heavy barrel) that is a larger diameter  under the free float aluminum handgaurd tube. Along with the standard milspec testing colt does, the barrel has a 1/9 twist.  Now, this seems unfortunate now, but at the time all the mfgs making commercial ARs  really wanted to push the 1/9 twist. Bushmaster,stated in their literature selling their junk, that the 1/9 twist was superior and the 1/7 wore barrels out too fast and that it wasn’t as accurate. .. Yea…  we see how that turned out.    But that claim did take some kinda of hold obviously as we all still see cheaper guns usually almost always using the 1/9 twist.  The topic is a long  post on it’s own so i will move on.    As the 1/9 was popular among many at the time and used in high power, colt  opted to make the barrels in 1/9.  The extremely long bullets we have no didn’t really exist as well known options back then or I am sure the gun would have come with a 1/7 twist.

Now, if you are thinking that you would like to have one of these guns but would change the barrel out, hold on a second.  Over the years, ,many people have bought one of these rifles and tried 77 grain bullets in it just to see what would happen and found that it shot the 77s perfectly.  What they had no real way of knowing, and what I only found out about 10 years ago myself  from Colt employee is that the barrels are actually closer to 1/8.5 inch twist with the exact twist being a little on the  faster side.  That kind of barrel marking would have been gibberish to most buyers at the time.  Probably even now.  And it would be a lot easier and less of a headache to just stamp it 1/9.   Why they decided to split the difference between a true 1/9 and a 1/7 I have no idea, and its likely lost to time.   Point is, the gun’s barrel says 1/9 but you can shoot 77 gr bullets in it and even some of the bullets as long as the 75gr A-max .  A fellow memeber of Arfcom once told me he one his local range’s 1000 yard F-class match using the Colt CR6724 and the Hornady  75gr A-max bullets.

The muzzle of the HBAR Elite has a nice recessed target crown to help protect it from damage.  The gas block is a milpsec front sight’gas block shaved down to be low profile and it taper pinned in place.  Not screwed on or some other lousy method that is not as tough and durable.

The FF tube is smooth with grooves running some of  the length.  Not likely to get as many cool gun prom points as M-lok or keymod, but completely usable and comfortable for shooting off bags or prone with a sling.   The tube came fitted with two sling swivel studs for various styles.  The front can be used for a bipod and the read the sling.  Or you can use them to adjust how your sling fits to you when going from different formal shooting positions at a match.

The buffer is a standard rifle buffer and colt sends an “accu wedge” with each rifle.  Luckily we all now know ( I hope) that the accu wedge is worthless except for people who can’t stand things like brass marks on their brass deflector or movement of the upper/lower for cosmetic reasons.  The play of the fit of the upper and lower has 0 effect on accuracy.   The lower in this case has been fitted with the newer colt  safety selector that is capable of being switched to the opposite side for lefties.

What is a target/match gun without  a better trigger?  Well, colt has you covered there.  In a time before drop in match triggers like the SSA existed for AR15s, Colt  had the low mass match trigger that came standard in these rifles.

The trigger and pins are all stainless and while It isn’t really comparable to something like the SSA or the MBT or KAC match triggers, at the time it was like a miracle.  It was safe, tough had a faster lock time and it did reduce the trigger pull weight quite a bit.  It’s a single stage trigger and it doesn’t break like a glass rod, but it is far and away better than a milspec trigger.   At one time it was possible to buy it from colt like an accessory, but  that didn’t last long sad to say.   Before triggers like the SSA came along I would have loved to been able to use the low mass colt part in my various carbines and rifles,   Of course now you have your pick of a dozen match triggers.   Colt still sells the gun with this trigger but I think it has more to do with knowing most buyers are going to replace the trigger with a more expensive model anyway and nothing they picked would satisfy everyone.  Better for the gun to be 200 bucks cheaper than try to please everyone with whatever brand they chose.

As a side note colt did for a small run make a custom shop target rifle that was even higher quality than the 6724. It has  a full  1 inch diameter match barrel with a Jewel trigger and choate A2 stock with butt hook, hogue  firing grip.  The barrel was made by one of the big match barrel makers  at the time, either hart or douglas I forget which.  The roll mark on the lower was not the usual style but the  Sam Colt family crest “Armsmear” . Picture of the rare gun below .  Sorry to say I  not only do not own one,  but I have never seen on in person.


Back to the point. The  CAR-A3 comes with standard M16  bolt carrier group. Fully MPC tested and milspec.

Unlike the vast majority of it’s  “peers” at the time and even a lot now still, the key is properly staked like all colt rifles and carbines.  Being a target rifle is no excuse to cut corners.

This rifle has been fitted with the magpul PRS rifle stock and the rear monopod that fits to a 1913 rail.   The  masterpiece from magpul is a perfect  pairing with the gun and one of the few after market parts a person can get for an AR15 that actually improved its performance in some meaningful way beyond just looking cool.   The other addition is a rubber ergo grip which is preferred by my Dad.  The gun in it’s box stock form  comes with an A2 buttsock and A2 grip which are perfectly usable.  The A2 stock is lighter so I wouldn’t advise  changing it unless you have to.  Or really  really want to.

Normally this gun has an 18x Leupold target/varmint scope in a larue mount, but for testing out the optic for review and some other points, it is wearing a Night Force  5.5x-22x in a ADM mount. More on those in another post.


So.   It’s a match target gun that Colt also no advertises as a LE sniper solution currently so the  question is, how does it shoot?

To show the accuracy of the rifle I followed my usual habits.   I fired the gun off the bench with a rest and bags using my handloads and some  factory match ammo.   This time I am posting the  groups from 100 and 200 yards.   This is going to be a two parter and the extended range testing will be in part 2.  I have fired this gun  for years at very long range and I am saving that for a post on its own in the next week or two.

To start with, I fired the bullet the gun is mostly used to shoot since the majority of owners   think it can not handle the heavier stuff.  The 69 gr bullet is the one conventional wisdom says is the heaviest you can go in a  true 1/9 twist barrel and it be stable in all temps  and at all  reasonable velocities.    In this case it is the old reliable 69 gr Sierra match king.   The gun fires it as well as you can ask.  If it was a 9 inch of 7 inch twist either one, I can’t imagine any complaints.

Now we have the 75gr TAP round above.  Ten rounds of a bullet weight that  often works pretty well in even true 1/9 twist rifles.  The black box stuff isnt marked as match ammo per se, but it is accurate enough to nearly be match often enough.  If you do have a true 1/9 twist and wish you could use heavier bullets, give this stuff a try as the  bullet itself as a length and profile that makes it more forgiving of the slower twist.  It is good stuff and and by all accounts the bullet has good terminal performance even on wild hogs in the hundreds of pounds.

No surprise here. The tried and true  bullet and load to get the most accuracy out of an AR15.  The Sierra 53 gr flat base HP.   Match or milspec barrel and chamber.  At ranges  from 0 to 300 you can see what your gun’s barrel is made of with this load.

This is a fairly new load and bullet.  It is the new ELD bullet that has replaced the older A-max from hornady.  The 73gr bullet is still a bit long and I have my doubts about it working in a true 1/9 twist even if the weight makes it seem like it would.  it is after all the length not the weight.  I have to say I think its a lot easier to load this bullet. I always found the 75 gr A-max bullets really finicky about seating depth.

I did shoot some sierra 77gr HPBT matchkings and they shot as well as the 69s but I apparently forgot to take a picture of them.  Like an idiot .

Last we have the  twenty round group at 200 yards.   I used the 69s only because I had 20 of those left with me.  And some out there thinking of buying the gun may still have  reservations about trusting the gun to shoot the 77gr stuff.  So I wanted to show what it can do with the bullet weight that the 1/9 shooters  stick to mostly.

That is  20 rounds, with one “flyer” that the case neck had split when it fired.   I apparently let a case I had reloaded  one too many times  get into the  ammo I took with me for testing, I  make effort to stick with virgin cases or close when i shoot for groups for review but unlike obama, I am not perfect.    That is a pretty good group if I do have to say so myself.    That should make you feel not too bad about the  1/9 twist even if you won’t take my word that the colt twist is actually faster or some  gun counter expert tells you some half backed story.    I wouldn’t feel a bit shorted if this was the bullet I was actually stuck with using.

On another side note,  all the thinking about 1/9 twists got me thinking about  what bullets a person could use if denied the ability to use the 75-80gr stuff that 1/7 twist excels with.   I have started using the sierra 63 gr flat base and Berger 60gr FB HP  and some others for a future article.


The Colt CAR-A3 HBAR Elite   CR6724 is  an EXCELLENT precision AR15 that you can buy straight ready to go. It doesn’t have a rail or some of the other new fad  hand guard but for a gun like this, it’s not needed.  Not everything has to have a keymod or rail on it contrary to popular opinion. I like the sleek  smooth looks on this gun.  If you have to have a tactical HG and or you want to use it for LE sniping or zombies or commies or what have you, colt does make a version with a modular HG that will accept mission necessary accessories. They even make  a version with a 20 inch barrel instead of a 24 inch, which I have long though would make an excellent starting base gun for 3 gun use.


Part 2  will be coming and it will be about the rifle being shot for group and performance out to 300-800-1000yds  as soon as I can depending on weather or unforeseen events.