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Sig 716 and the SCAR-H

by on 2012/05/26

Yesterday I got a chance to handle, grope, fondle, caress , smell and taste both of these 7.62 rifles.  I have not had a chance to shoot them both yet since they had just arrived but I did get to play with them for a pretty good while.  Both of these are fairly new to the market compared to other rifles in their niche like the M14/M1A , FAL and  G3 etc.  But I can say  in my opinion, they are better choices  over these older models…..for now.

I do not mean to spend this write up crapping on the M14 and the M14 boys club  but the ’14 was really  too little too late before it even hit the G.I’s hands.   I would hope few people reading this would argue the ergonomics of the older 30 cal battle rifles is no where near the newer generation.

The Sig is the newest of the two and it is the one I took a look at first.

The first thing I thought when I got it in it my hands was that it seemed heavier then the LMT MWS.  I did not have the MWS next to  it to check, but it did strike me as heavier.  And then I realized of course it is, the extra piston  parts would make it seem heavier up front even if it was not.  The Sig weighs  a touch over  9 pounds.  The Lower was ambi except the safety and to me thats the most important part I want ambi.. I see a day when few people will want something that is not ambi if they intend to use it in a serious social manner.  The rail felt good in the hand and had plenty of QD sockets. Sig added the Magpul  ACS stock which is their answer to the SOPMOD I suppose, and it is a pretty good alternative to the pricey SOPMOD but with better battery access.

It also had the magpul grip and came with the popular 308 Pmag that can be had for 17-18 bucks if you look around. The Pmag is the  SR25   KAC patter and not the  M14 type used by most armalite models.  The SR25 ( M110 SWS ) pattern is becoming the standard despite what some may or may not like.  This is important and I will get to it latter.  But suffice it to say  that the KAC M110 uses this pattern and it is in the Mil system along with the LMT  MWS used by the British in their DMR role.  SO it is the “standard”  7.62 AR mag for the near future at least.

The gas system can be removed in the typical for AR15 P  rifles way.  It has a 4 position regulator on it that way some  jackass can be sure to put it on the wrong setting when you are not looking or to allow you to adjust it for a suppressor And oddly enough has a bayonet lug on it. I do not know why anyone cares about the bayonet in the civilian and LEO world, but some still do.  I have to say I did not care for the iron sights on the rifle but few will leave the factory provided ones on long anyway.  They both fold  when not needed.  The barrel is 16 inches and has a 1/10 twist. I believe this to be a better choice to the 1/12 on a lot of bolt guns since it allows heavier bullets to be used.

I took the gun apart and looked it over up in them guts. Trigger is all milspec and can be expected to feel like a milspec trigger. But thats OK. A rifle meant to see abuse is no place for a Camp perry trigger.   The BCG however was a nice surprise. It was coating in something that made it as slick as snot on a pump house door. I mean slick.  I have no idea what the coating is right now. I was told it is the same as used on the LWRC and since Sig was sued by LWRC, this is likely. Sorry to say I am too lazy to look it up to find the specs of the coating.  The carrier also had cuts in it to shed weight or to collect crude. Probably for weight saving but they would work  in both ways I am sure.  For people in love with pistons currently you should take note of this. Since the MFG thought their piston rifle needed a miracle coating on the bolt that should tell you not all the hype some companies spread is true. All weapons need lube and this was a really nice touch.

Over all I liked the Sig fairly well. I even thought it felt better  and handled better then the SIg 5.56 piston AR oddly enough.  Sig has had some problems with their quality control recently so do keep that in mind. Though the guns sell for around 1700 and that is a great deal for a 7.62  Ar rifle and a piston to boot if you want a piston this would be a better starter weapon then the MWS.

The next rifle is the SCAR-H , beloved by  SOCOM/SEAL groupies and call of duty players throughout the universe. This is the 1st H I have had a chance to play with and I really wanted to like the SCAR H. In fact before I heard about the LE901, this was the gun I gave series thought to getting,  It is what I consider the closet thing to a modern “battle rifle”  in the older sense of the name. The Sig is more of a carbine in 30 caliber I Sig pretty much confirms that its no DM rifle but the SCAR is touted as a sniper rifle among some on the internet. Of course that doe not make it so, but  you know how that it.

I hate to have to come on here and write some stuff less then flattering about the gun I wanted to like  but it is what it is. I am sure the gun is reliable but it has a few down sides.  The first thing I tried to do was  dry fire then rifle. It had a ACOG mounted  on it by the owner and I promptly tore the skin off my knuckles by the optic mount while working the bolt to the rear.   I do not like having to reach over to charge the rifle like on a AK  so if you are like me, you better be careful. The rear butt stock was stiff and hard to adjust and move.  I do not mean just tight either. I mean I almost asked for a rubber mallet.  The trigger on it was terrible.  Not a big deal, it is a battle rifle.  Mags did not want to drop free very easy either.  Oh and since I am talking mags.  The mags for the H are FN mags and do not work on anything else.  They are nicely made and strong but they are not SR25 patter. I understand why FN did this, but I would rather pay 17 dollars then 80-120 or more for the SCAR mags.   I am sure someday some company will make after market mags for the SCAR H  but usually it takes a while for a aftermarket mag to be trustworthy unless its a magpul mag. I am confident this will happen someday.  A company is currently working a lower that would accept the  magpul  30 cal mag and that is something to keep in mind.

The owner told me the accuracy of the gun was so so but I do not trust the opinion of some one that accuracy tests with wolf ammo only.  The SCAR has been used as a sniper support weapon in some cases so I am sure it will do fine as battle rifle.  I was told it does shot softly but is louder then a A Bomb.  Of course the muzzle device is the culprit for these things.  The gas system of the H is adjustable for cans  and for reliability like other pistons. The ergos of the gun are pretty decent since the grip is all AR15.  The SCAR H is about a thousand and a half more then the Sig normally. Both can be had in FDE which is the much more popular color.  Even though I was kinda rough on the H if not for the price i would still pick the FN  if price was equal and had only those two to choose from.  Next week I will try to get some live fire with them for some accuracy reports.

From → Reviews

15 Comments
  1. SGT Loren Huckstadt RET. permalink

    I have been in the USMC and Law Enforcement long enough and have been lucky enough to use M-14s, FALs and G-3s. My first love after my military service was an AR-10 and H.K.91 I picked up.so I agree with you the newer models of LaRue, LWRC, LMT SIG and FN SCAR are better rifles overall. I had 13 months of trying the above new 7.62 wonders while trying to locate a SIGR716 Patrol rifle. The new generation 7.62 rifles are all VERY expensive, especially in comparsion to their 5.56 models and you have to wonder is there more value there.

    I recently finally obtained a SIG R716 and have been able to shoot and check it out. First off the trigger which you described as Mil- spec can be improved by drop in from 7 lbs. to 4 lbs without much sweat. Second the weight is 9.3 lbs but I carried it and shot off hand most of the range day and felt it was no heavier than my SIG 556 SWAT. Third special bolt carrier coating is pretty standard on many of the latest battle rifles, piston or not, so no surprise! Finally I was amazed at the accuracy of this patrol rifle compared to my other custom sniper rifles. Even off hand it never misses.Honestly I didn’t try the iron sights that much but with my 3.5 X 35 ACOG it flat out performs. Looking forward to how your range time turns out in comparsion.

    The FN SCAR is a very nice copy of the German Fallschirmjaeger’s FG-42, and like you I wanted to believe the DOD, SOCOM hype. I found it nicely made for a PLASTIC gun but TOO light for heavy
    loads or high velocity barrier loads which the NAVY and USMC are turning too. Keep up the good work. Semper Fi! LDH.

  2. While I welcome any atmetpt to end the perception that an AR-15 is a tool of murder, and I don’t object to the term, I just don’t feel comfortable referring to mine as a “Modern Sporting Rifle”, since I don’t use it for sport. I have mine for defense in times of civil emergency and natural disasters. I feel that a citizen should be as well armed as a common soldier, and given that most soldiers I’ve talked to prefer to use their M16s in single-fire mode, I feel that the AR-15 gives me most of the same advantages. I have absolutely no intention of ever committing a crime with my weapon. When people ask me about why I have it, I try to explain that it is for when things get really bad, and you want to keep bad people really far away from you. So in my case, I want to give people the impression that while it is not a tool of murder, it is a defensive weapon. Maybe I’ll call it a “Civil Defense Rifle”.

  3. My family purchased 3 new Sig Sauer Rifles all 3 had issues and were sent back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFowVSuaY0

    • shawnmt6601 permalink

      Wally, with Sigs recent problems with QC I cannot say I am surprised.

      • Thanks… I have an older Sig Ar and an older 556. They work Great. The new stuff is unreliable.

      • shawnmt6601 permalink

        the QC problem extend beyond the introduction of the sig 556, but I am glad your gun workds great for you

    • Jay Rex permalink

      I watched at your video very closely and I can clearly see your Gas Operation Setting is set near the “off “postion. At the video timeline 0:54 the gas operation cap can be clearly seen at around the 10 o’clock position. The 9 o’clock position turns off the gas operation. Which requires you to cycle the action. So it is not fully moving the bolt. Just enough movement for you produce this B.S. Sig Hater video. Read the Manual or RTFM. The 556 Russian clearly is in the hands of a poor operator judging from the way the magazine was inserted and “rocks” after the “failure”.

  4. What are the chances of getting 3 Sig Rifles New and all 3 wont cycle properly.

    I like the older Sigs… The new ones seem to be discombobulated.

    • watson permalink

      the chances are, the operator. i find it quite unlikely that three faulty weapons would find there way into the hands of one operator; with so many very pleased owners, specifically from such a reputable company. i am not sold, to be frank, on you’re video nor expertise.

  5. Lhuckstadt permalink

    Interesting warning! U have the gas setting on one shot no ejection setting.

  6. I have a Sig 716 and it fires 7.62nato and 308 equally well. Minimal recoil, runs like a Swiss clock. For my aging eyes I find the iron sights to be accurate, haven’t mounted optics yet. I am pleased.

  7. trimman permalink

    I always enjoy reading a report based only on playing with, not actually going to the range and spending some time to come up with a real evaluation. ( Thanks! I aim to please!!) Come on Shawn, please dont waste my time with a partial report.( I did not force you to read it)If you are going to do an eval, then go the distance or go home. Reports like this remind me of a “to be continued”.( I suggest starting the trimman blog) Do you do soap operas on the side ?( Sometimes.)

  8. Mrwicked98 permalink

    @ WallybutIer, I watched the video, its all over Youtube. All of them, as if one video wasn’t enough. Vendetta much do you? Upon doing a little reseach there are others who have had a similar problem with the bolt not completely cycling. (They however didn’t run out to Youtube and make 12 videos complaining about the same thing.) Its come to my attention that heavy or thicker lubricant such as frog lube or something similar helps to break in the rifle without all the short cycles. Lubrication of the Bolt as well as the piston and the bore is the key. I have the rifle, I’ve tried it and it works. Taking the rifle out of the box, taking it to the range and shooting it without cleaning the shipping greaseout and properly lubing the rifle will result in similar stupid wallybutler results.

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